From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09B6984037; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 08:57:27 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1719824250; cv=none; b=a8igWo4snuKu8ltHslOQaolrnnM0Y+9p/ZokhifmeEK0znmBr3bslKLCEvgboViC0wiLlzjGyLc8VtZVRn30YcvXF3GZZ4BazJEr/evn8hKYMs4XBVwepNDicQ1vPg/LCOQ84hiJNTUA3yH8rvqG3xvutCWAtDURZAtVOAu1UJI= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1719824250; c=relaxed/simple; bh=VsuwJFzX4sE25IttFIL5itrdpII9oD4FbXeMLq78W+k=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=LdH4mU3wt69UWFk1B8Jwe26en0D9W3/n44HXRT1+bXiIrb6VNwqgSXigKhYEpU5gYBafooAEj4eMke7wh5MIDBQeqtesoHXSthK319QzXPlnpnSriMFuJhoWAT9b02DTvC9W0PaSrH3jatzK4xJS2lpf0mqi3SLP7riafffl9Us= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=LM2v/xvA; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="LM2v/xvA" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=o4chuPjJhOwMaRcl3c10pgth9KRRgz5qWhP3IdOUpx0=; b=LM2v/xvA6pgBAd3rbdDV5h7+T9 pOiayXJKjGhmF/hKQeycJrsuiRlWxoqMwce3KeM6788bt4p7+lJ3eHSuHgAhJynRAzZYFF/OEEyrJ WlrV/Z+ISnJVkGSxE2F8z76q0uUNOgTjWWmQ5HJ79+lrQDLHczbz3il0fZUeSY7WgTibMa89PXE7a 0g8I0g5sdGxjliKlAVP+qNSsvPfIvLx/2YfaalhVrq5OgvZT+nUBNdnAPlo0TL+laSjRr/a/OskgX QTkD1qgD6SNnWmGbEV+lZAStShSgh20WO7cWJUu0ZAZXXKKvTTLtLWw3Mkf0ymNF7ja8k0pe6mDOT DADmxz6A==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:8143:6283:9375:d9e] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.97.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1sOCqg-0000000H9zT-34cp; Mon, 01 Jul 2024 08:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <51087cd7149ce576aa166d32d051592b146ce2c4.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2] ptp: Add vDSO-style vmclock support From: David Woodhouse To: Peter Hilber , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux.dev, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-rtc@vger.kernel.org, "Ridoux, Julien" , virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev, "Luu, Ryan" Cc: "Christopher S. Hall" , Jason Wang , John Stultz , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Richard Cochran , Stephen Boyd , Thomas Gleixner , Xuan Zhuo , Marc Zyngier , Mark Rutland , Daniel Lezcano , Alessandro Zummo , Alexandre Belloni Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2024 09:57:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <20231218073849.35294-1-peter.hilber@opensynergy.com> <684eac07834699889fdb67be4cee09319c994a42.camel@infradead.org> <671a784b-234f-4be6-80bf-5135e257ed40@opensynergy.com> <4a0a240dffc21dde4d69179288547b945142259f.camel@infradead.org> <8d9d7ce2-4dd1-4f54-a468-79ef5970a708@opensynergy.com> <2de9275f-b344-4a76-897b-52d5f4bdca59@opensynergy.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-AjNV5g2OGp1xw371LssE" User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4-0ubuntu2 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-AjNV5g2OGp1xw371LssE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2024-06-28 at 22:27 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On 28 June 2024 17:38:15 BST, Peter Hilber = wrote: > > On 28.06.24 14:15, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > On Fri, 2024-06-28 at 13:33 +0200, Peter Hilber wrote: > > > > On 27.06.24 16:52, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > > > I already added a flags field, so this might look something like: > > > > >=20 > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /* > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * Smearing flags= . The UTC clock exposed through this structure > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * is only ever t= rue UTC, but a guest operating system may > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * choose to offe= r a monotonic smeared clock to its users. This > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * merely offers = a hint about what kind of smearing to perform, > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 * for consistenc= y with systems in the nearby environment. > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 */ > > > > > #define VMCLOCK_FLAGS_SMEAR_UTC_SLS (1<<5) /* draft-kuhn-leapseco= nd-00.txt */ > > > > >=20 > > > > > (UTC-SLS is probably a bad example but are there formal definitio= ns for > > > > > anything else?) > > > >=20 > > > > I think it could also be more generic, like flags for linear smeari= ng, > > > > cosine smearing(?), and smear_start_sec and smear_end_sec fields (r= elative > > > > to the leap second start). That could also represent UTC-SLS, and > > > > noon-to-noon, and it would be well-defined. > > > >=20 > > > > This should reduce the likelihood that the guest doesn't know the s= mearing > > > > variant. > > >=20 > > > I'm wary of making it too generic. That would seem to encourage a > > > *proliferation* of false "UTC-like" clocks. > > >=20 > > > It's bad enough that we do smearing at all, let alone that we don't > > > have a single definition of how to do it. > > >=20 > > > I made the smearing hint a full uint8_t instead of using bits in flag= s, > > > in the end. That gives us a full 255 ways of lying to users about wha= t > > > the time is, so we're unlikely to run out. And it's easy enough to ad= d > > > a new VMCLOCK_SMEARING_XXX type to the 'registry' for any new methods > > > that get invented. > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > > My concern is that the registry update may come after a driver has alre= ady > > been implemented, so that it may be hard to ensure that the smearing wh= ich > > has been chosen is actually implemented. >=20 > Well yes, but why in the name of all that is holy would anyone want > to invent *new* ways to lie to users about the time? If we capture > the existing ones as we write this, surely it's a good thing that > there's a barrier to entry for adding more? Ultimately though, this isn't the hill for me to die on. I'm pushing on that topic because I want to avoid the proliferation of *ambiguity*. If we have a precision clock, we should *know* what the time is. So how about this proposal. I line up the fields in the proposed shared memory structure to match your virtio-rtc proposal, using 'subtype' as you proposed. But, instead of the 'subtype' being valid only for VIRTIO_RTC_CLOCK_UTC, we define a new top-level type for *smeared* UTC. So, you have: +\begin{lstlisting} +#define VIRTIO_RTC_CLOCK_UTC 0 +#define VIRTIO_RTC_CLOCK_TAI 1 +#define VIRTIO_RTC_CLOCK_MONO 2 +\end{lstlisting} I propose that you add #define VIRTIO_RTC_CLOCK_SMEARED_UTC 3 If my proposed memory structure is subsumed into the virtio-rtc proposal we'd literally use the same names, but for the time being I'll update mine to: /* * What time is exposed in the time_sec/time_frac_sec fields? */ uint8_t time_type; #define VMCLOCK_TIME_UTC 0 /* Since 1970-01-01 00:00:00z */ #define VMCLOCK_TIME_TAI 1 /* Since 1970-01-01 00:00:00z */ #define VMCLOCK_TIME_MONOTONIC 2 /* Since undefined epoch */ #define VMCLOCK_TIME_INVALID 3 /* virtio-rtc uses this for smeared UTC */ I can then use your smearing subtype values as the 'hint' field in the shared memory structure. You currently have: +\begin{lstlisting} +#define VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_STRICT 0 +#define VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_SMEAR 1 +#define VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_SMEAR_NOON_LINEAR 2 +#define VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_LEAP_UNSPECIFIED 3 +\end{lstlisting} I can certainly ensure that 'noon linear' has the same value. I don't think you need both 'SMEAR' and 'LEAP_UNSPECIFIED' though: +\item VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_SMEAR deviates from the UTC standard by + smearing time in the vicinity of the leap second, in a not + precisely defined manner. This avoids clock steps due to UTC + leap seconds. ... +\item VIRTIO_RTC_SUBTYPE_LEAP_UNSPECIFIED may deviate from the UTC + standard w.r.t.\ leap second introduction in an unspecified way + (leap seconds may, or may not, be smeared). To the client, both of those just mean "for a day or so around a leap second event, you can't trust this device to know what the time is". There isn't any point in separating "does lie to you" from "might lie to you", surely? The guest can't do anything useful with that distinction. Let's drop SMEAR and keep only LEAP_UNSPECIFIED? And if you *really* want to parameterise it, I think that's a bad idea and it encourages the proliferation of different time "standards", but I'd probably just suck it up and do whatever you do because that's not strictly within the remit of my live-migration part. --=-AjNV5g2OGp1xw371LssE Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEkQw ggYQMIID+KADAgECAhBNlCwQ1DvglAnFgS06KwZPMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMIGIMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzETMBEGA1UECBMKTmV3IEplcnNleTEUMBIGA1UEBxMLSmVyc2V5IENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEuMCwGA1UEAxMlVVNFUlRydXN0IFJTQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0 aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0xODExMDIwMDAwMDBaFw0zMDEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGWMQswCQYDVQQG EwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYD VQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50 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