From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: David Ahern <dsahern@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF_HIDDEN netdevice
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 11:21:54 -0600
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Cc: Jiri Pirko <jiri@resnulli.us>, Si-Wei Liu <si-wei.liu@oracle.com>,
        "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@intel.com>,
        David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
        "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@wp.pl>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@intel.com>,
        Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
        virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
        virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
To: Siwei Liu <loseweigh@gmail.com>
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On 4/4/18 1:36 AM, Siwei Liu wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 6:04 PM, David Ahern <dsahern@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/3/18 9:42 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are other use cases that want to hide a device from userspace. I
>>>
>>> What usecases do you have in mind?
>>
>> As mentioned in a previous response some kernel drivers create control
>> netdevs. Just as in this case users should not be mucking with it, and
>> S/W like lldpd should ignore it.
>>
>>>
>>>> would prefer a better solution than playing games with name prefixes and
>>>> one that includes an API for users to list all devices -- even ones
>>>> hidden by default.
>>>
>>> Netdevice hiding feels a bit scarry for me. This smells like a workaround
>>> for userspace issues. Why can't the netdevice be visible always and
>>> userspace would know what is it and what should it do with it?
>>>
>>> Once we start with hiding, there are other things related to that which
>>> appear. Like who can see what, levels of visibility etc...
>>>
>>
>> I would not advocate for any API that does not allow users to have full
>> introspection. The intent is to hide the netdev by default but have an
>> option to see it.
> 
> I'm fine with having a link dump API to inspect the hidden netdev. As
> said, the name for hidden netdevs should be in a separate device
> namespace, and we did not even get closer to what it should look like
> as I don't want to make it just an option for ip link. Perhaps a new
> set of sub-commands of, say, 'ip device'.

It is a netdev so there is no reason to have a separate ip command to
inspect it. 'ip link' is the right place.