From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rick Jones Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/8] tou: Transports over UDP - part I Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 17:01:04 -0700 Message-ID: <576DC9C0.4080102@hpe.com> References: <1466099522-690741-1-git-send-email-tom@herbertland.com> <20160623.034004.1518087003165708123.davem@davemloft.net> <576B94DA.7070804@nod.at> <576DA7C4.7040108@hpe.com> <576DAEF9.8080501@hpe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Richard Weinberger , David Miller , Linux Kernel Network Developers , Kernel Team To: Tom Herbert Return-path: Received: from g2t2353.austin.hpe.com ([15.233.44.26]:7014 "EHLO g2t2353.austin.hpe.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751353AbcFYABG (ORCPT ); Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:01:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Sender: netdev-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On 06/24/2016 04:43 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: > Here's Christoph's slides on TFO in the wild which presents a good > summary of the middlebox problem. There is one significant difference > in that ECN needs network support whereas TFO didn't. Given that > experience, I'm doubtful other new features at L4 could ever be > productively use (like EDO or maybe TCP-ENO). > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-tcpm-13.pdf Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but my takeaway from those slides is Apple were able to come-up with ways to deal with the middleboxes and so could indeed productively use TCP FastOpen. "Overall, very good success-rate" though tempered by "But... middleboxes were a big issue in some ISPs..." Though it doesn't get into how big (some connections, many, most, all?) and how many ISPs. rick jones Just an anecdote... Not that I am a "power user" of my iPhone running 9.3.2 (13F69) nor that I know that anything I am using is the Apple Service stated as using TFO (mostly Safari, Mail and Messages) but if it is, I cannot say that any troubles under the covers have been noticed by me.