From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6DEB361960; Tue, 1 Sep 2026 23:37:56 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1788305880; cv=none; b=IV6zQd4sDKkRVzChYtAQyko4V0Z/cPCkEQS927HNHConxhjv4YiyeruNr6VoU5m5w2USrfcUExSshqyFBy0Gu3qLXyx3PviTNA3JikVdkUrA2E5+BEVDxK0tq+LE36Tq9lK7BgZcCCqWcBXe7OEgdfz+8+VojgVbHKNeFbw2fTg= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1788305880; c=relaxed/simple; bh=IPpJh9LCk1BgkYwDUBD3mCTHlfhuFXj6bV2BJBFKD4o=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=M4ShulDkk8pn0kLtw09lZVULcM49ckHRJ9+a5xUKZDM05bRs11rmR6PxPWZKQ+HhnJL7DvwdHVg8CiEd/+AKgEbomC2yrJ1KumY5AU0sUx7r0NNte9gF575rvl3HEviYoxPVER4fXxkoLl39ugRV7DIBAa2wuL1heuU8SSzU6w0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=UULw5ZrI; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="UULw5ZrI" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=IPpJh9LCk1BgkYwDUBD3mCTHlfhuFXj6bV2BJBFKD4o=; b=UULw5ZrIdP7IgyndMtJkwiNJLd cdPt9D1og9NLz3ZM2bVcYAJkywoAfRZQwyq31ZVLjdMZTnvqvB5+nSJsXifSwOzW/3selqQoq9C7r zAvit6JQ4djs/FcVK2YhsF2F/1ont6ybgHHBR9vfBYA1QFRWf/4Znn1O0fWMykNkjuOaiMWxBcU1C nxAfx2s1pZE85hHteOjbNKYvHtK7oo9dspflOlxu+g5aRI+8Oiae3drrQcAGCJfjttmD+cNRL8gUW F05LP0TyB+4oLMpG1gQvlp8wwTjo35c51OHp4T0AntMZFl3mWPERVH+Fzxa6VWgzj+6dCNN7zEVgP GuzI0y/A==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:d943:510:b128:832d] (helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1x1Y34-00000005w9M-2Oz6; Tue, 01 Sep 2026 23:37:50 +0000 Message-ID: <6a802a73a949f22ba41ce60d11a1d5d0095509d3.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 0/4] Add ntp_error to clock snapshot, enable NTP_PPS on tickless kernel From: David Woodhouse To: Rodolfo Giometti , Richard Cochran , Andrew Lunn , "David S. Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Jakub Kicinski , Paolo Abeni , John Stultz , Thomas Gleixner , Stephen Boyd , Miroslav Lichvar , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, Alexander Gordeev Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2026 00:37:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5e4bb110-6f4f-433a-b025-2cf89f8362ab@enneenne.com> References: <20260829210041.40649-1-dwmw2@infradead.org> <5e4bb110-6f4f-433a-b025-2cf89f8362ab@enneenne.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-mu+npmASNkvWZDaJ7Pc0" User-Agent: Evolution 3.60.3-0ubuntu1~ppa9~24.04 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-mu+npmASNkvWZDaJ7Pc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2026-09-01 at 17:35 +0200, Rodolfo Giometti wrote: > On Sat, 2026-08-29 at 21:56 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > With this change, CONFIG_NTP_PPS works correctly on a tickless kernel; > > enable it. And change the non-CONFIG_NTP_PPS code path in pps_get_ts() > > to use ktime_get_snapshot_id() too, for the more accurate data. >=20 > Thanks for respinning. The idea is good, the !NO_HZ_COMMON dependency > has needed attention since 2011. Comments on 2/4 and 3/4 go in > separate mails. Here the general ones. >=20 > The series does not apply to mainline (v7.1-13176-g840ef6c78e6a). It > is written against some timekeeping rework that is not merged yet, > and there is no base-commit: and no word about which tree to use. > Please repost with "git format-patch --base=3D". Oops, the dependencies actually landed in Linus's tree a lot more recently than I thought; I thought it was so old that it wasn't worth specifying a base. In fact although it *does* apply to mainline, it needs a tree from mid-August or fresher (v7.2-1297-g3b4128b9f374). > There is no changelog. Where are the v3 -> v4 notes? And why is this > now PATCH and no longer RFC? There were no substantive changes from RFC v3 to v4 (I rewrapped one line which offended me while rebasing, I believe). It's no longer RFC because nobody saw fit to comment :) The evolution of this was in the timekeeping part, not on the PPS side. If you really want to see it: v1: https://lore.kernel.org/all/3616fc9718614bf11915569599038a5bcb268c02.ca= mel@infradead.org/ v2: https://lore.kernel.org/all/3b10d2e91b18f49d8a3e6226b08ac8cd9cb49aa6.ca= mel@infradead.org/ v3: https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260622211822.1056437-1-dwmw2@infradead.or= g/ > 3/4 does nothing at all without 1/4: it changes no timestamp value, > only the cost. So the series has to go through tip/timers as a unit, > not with the PPS bits going via Andrew separately. Yes. Or we let the timekeeping part go through, and the PPS part can come later. There's no rush. > 1/4 itself is not mine to judge. It changes ::systime for every user of > ktime_get_snapshot_id() and get_device_system_crosststamp(), not only > PPS. Whether that is the right value for ptp4l and phc2sys is for > Richard and the PTP people to say. I raise it only because I want that > decision made explicitly, not inherited from a PPS series. >=20 > > Tested with a hack to make vmclock simulate a 1PPS signal, although the= re > > are now better options for that. But it's enough to show that even the > > tickless kernel converges to [...] the PPS signal and remains there > > (tested with a periodic PTP_SYS_OFFSET_EXTENDED to compare with the > > vmclock reference). >=20 > It is not enough. 4/4 takes the pulse from the same counter the > timekeeping reads, so there is no independent reference in the test at > all. Converging to +0ns against your own clock source proves very > little, and it says nothing about hardpps() driven by a real pulse. It's not about the counter being an independent reference. The point here is that in a NO_HZ_FULL kernel, the CLOCK_REALTIME reading itself sawtooths around where it should be, so even that perfect *dependent* reference gives deltas of up to =C2=B110ns for the same test. You may be right that it doesn't actually test the pps_get_ts() path though; the vmclock test builds its own pps_times. So it's proving the *concept* but not the actual pps_get_ts() code path. > You are asking me to undo something that has stood for fifteen years. > I am not going to ack that on this evidence. :) What I want to see > instead is in my reply to 2/4. 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