From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF47C433E0 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 20:36:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC90961937 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 20:36:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229879AbhCTUfy (ORCPT ); Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:35:54 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:46706 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229618AbhCTUfW (ORCPT ); Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:35:22 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2584C061574 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id h6-20020a0568300346b02901b71a850ab4so11959186ote.6 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/SsrPAj4nblmUyJmmUBSPqkp6Qu+FiUJV9dt0qH1/ws=; b=KS5BZAYu+RInOE4rLzXoeVQZtVUN63m+T2TsjjPJTjYd04W0dO/DcQ0N8K4TR4VqVs RWwH5viEKRWSjZZFCoVboX46JNcvZ6TNOLKzqVc8Il0TyHgW6Uz3zoxGDGzYsbrUpAqj 2Caje2T9wAs+1QZTMFYcAeg2HHelCdBouxz8+W6iNGDIOxBR+VfqrFSE0TNZvTztQt1B xeQSAAKNtMCX1IU+ToRfa5YkVolUAMnUnHhmaFfiGS7UxlCrRZDFPToKTkQjyP2OgTiu BilOrit+O0OM61PZ2JY9yJtgOWOdK6exWfr+9RDv+Ku2XaCZ8ksK6qEfm16TdkOOBNLZ ZwMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/SsrPAj4nblmUyJmmUBSPqkp6Qu+FiUJV9dt0qH1/ws=; b=Ucw93Pgm5pjtJftl5zAf5N78S45tSogmxaZq2dJVFu5sMxElSM2m77p5wFkfQwX0/G NgPnYcVe0NpK/X0GD3PLucwto0KCvpTn/Q7XpQV31EK+LpPxwtgCzhUzaM2ukmwmZt8U Sla/F5czfTpjlACARLSXaFnPFv/yYjmcMquTmVUM1WZrxfYjPxkoAX5nsU5sWWMpG0Vg gIPfnk8A4jOt1o/W7T79zmqeJEaoJHIujfFPiW/91JrDXTNgIaa8zzp7MvZDbLclX0OS S6L8VQRmQ1E02vH7nvLI/kbW3RbYE0cZRxGzVxqmT4/P0JL8clansavqZxsZt97cJ+7t dVMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303h3N0HrSzGPi+bvJFpUNOMP94Bs8cKZzZNBHADNR0ercBkHhJ DUtVuxw1X8/HSMH0aR2lgneQT2lzTc8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwlpRR99NFlZoTM4jzfUicWXZO7hUykwgP6t7NG+YQm1AebpXXOssd57fI+zZJZnBUFnAK8VQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1c6e:: with SMTP id s14mr5934916otg.17.1616272521051; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Davids-MacBook-Pro.local ([2601:282:800:dc80:15d7:4991:5c5e:8e9d]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e12sm2107733oou.33.2021.03.20.13.35.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: rfc5837 and rfc8335 From: David Ahern To: Ishaan Gandhi , Andreas Roeseler Cc: David Miller , Network Development , Stephen Hemminger , Willem de Bruijn References: <20210317221959.4410-1-ishaangandhi@gmail.com> <5E97397E-7028-46E8-BC0D-44A3E30C41A4@gmail.com> <45eff141-30fb-e8af-5ca5-034a86398ac9@gmail.com> <6a7f33a5-13ca-e009-24ac-fde59fb1c080@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 14:35:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6a7f33a5-13ca-e009-24ac-fde59fb1c080@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On 3/19/21 10:24 PM, David Ahern wrote: > At the end of the day, what is the value of this feature vs the other > ICMP probing set? Merging the conversations about both of these RFCs since my comments and questions are the same for both. What is the motivation for adding support for these RFCs? Is the push from a company or academia (e.g., a CS project)? Realistically, who is expected to use this feature and why given the information it leaks about the networking configuration of the node. Why is this tool expected to be more useful than a network operator using existing protocols like lldp, collecting that data across nodes and analyzing, or using tools like suzieq[1]? RFC 5837 has been out for 11 years. Do any operating systems support it — e.g., networking vendors like Cisco, Juniper, etc.? If not, why not? This one seems to me the most dubious at this point in time. Similarly for RFC 8335, what is the current support for it? Linux does not need to support an RFC just because it exists. I am really questioning the value of both of them [1] https://github.com/netenglabs/suzieq