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Sat, 25 Jul 2026 10:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2026 13:38:02 -0400 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] AF_ALG: Drop support for off-CPU cryptography To: Dominique Martinet , Eric Biggers Cc: Harald Freudenberger , acme@kernel.org, adrian.hunter@intel.com, alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com, ardb@kernel.org, axboe@kernel.dk, corbet@lwn.net, davem@davemloft.net, edumazet@google.com, herbert@gondor.apana.org.au, horms@kernel.org, io-uring@vger.kernel.org, irogers@google.com, james.clark@linaro.org, jolsa@kernel.org, kuba@kernel.org, kuniyu@google.com, linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, mingo@redhat.com, namhyung@kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, pabeni@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, willemb@google.com, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; 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micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------Qav0WqtOq9GpvT00AbFXKs8Q" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------Qav0WqtOq9GpvT00AbFXKs8Q Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9woazU20l50m9dxJk2VCDnaq"; protected-headers="v1"; hp="clear" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2026 13:38:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] AF_ALG: Drop support for off-CPU cryptography To: Dominique Martinet , Eric Biggers Cc: Harald Freudenberger , acme@kernel.org, adrian.hunter@intel.com, alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com, ardb@kernel.org, axboe@kernel.dk, corbet@lwn.net, davem@davemloft.net, edumazet@google.com, herbert@gondor.apana.org.au, horms@kernel.org, io-uring@vger.kernel.org, irogers@google.com, james.clark@linaro.org, jolsa@kernel.org, kuba@kernel.org, kuniyu@google.com, linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, mingo@redhat.com, namhyung@kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, pabeni@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, willemb@google.com, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/25/26 03:37, Dominique Martinet wrote: > Thank you both for your time replying >=20 > Eric Biggers wrote on Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 06:09:51PM +0000: >> On Sat, Jul 25, 2026 at 01:32:12AM +0900, Dominique Martinet wrote: >>> There's not much I can do about the vendor's kernel I'm stuck with, b= ut >>> that doesn't make having encryption material not accessible to usersp= ace >>> useless as a concept; >>> forgetting about the sysctl for now, what are the alternatives API th= is >>> kind of implementations could be based on? >>> >>> I guess I should start looking at how tpm backed encryption works, >>> some other day, it's getting late here... >> >> First, we should remember that implementing hardware-bound keys via a >> standalone crypto engine is a dated approach. Inline crypto engines a= nd >> CPUs, which work much better than and are much easier to use than lega= cy >> standalone crypto engines, can support hardware-bound keys as well. T= he >> former is already supported, and is already being widely used, in the >> kernel via the hardware-wrapped inline crypto keys feature. For the >> latter, see e.g. RISC-V High Assurance Cryptography. In the CPU case = no >> UAPI is even needed; userspace can just use it directly. >=20 > Thank you, this is exactly what I was asking about - my background isn'= t > crypto and ultimately whatever direction is implemented will depend on > $vendor and I'll just be following along, but I'll read up on this. >=20 > "Inline crypto engine" seems to be a qualcomm marketing term, but from > looking at their doc the API seems to be PKCS#11 smart card? > Having worked on these for some other hardware I can't say I find it > easier to use than af alg, but it's definitely something that can be > worked out. The Qualcomm Inline Crypto Engine is a type of inline encryption hardware. Inline encryption hardware is integrated in the I/O path, so using it doesn't involve any extra copies or interrupts. The data goes from memory to crypto hardware to the I/O target, and from the I/O target to crypto hardware to memory. The ciphertext is never written to memory. In the case of the Qualcomm Inline Crypto Engine, the I/O target is the the storage device. On Android, that's eMMC or UFS. I would be very surprised if the Inline Crypto Engine was any slower than the storage device connected to it. In Linux, inline storage encryption is exposed via the blk-crypto framework. It works very well and is widely used on Android. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------9woazU20l50m9dxJk2VCDnaq-- --------------Qav0WqtOq9GpvT00AbFXKs8Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEopQtqVJW1aeuo9/sszaHOrMp8lMFAmpk9HsACgkQszaHOrMp 8lOjDA//WdudKCsYd4EOeGAM3aieLtjj76rGYztK+AN03rlrekbuRjKfdi5rGqvl CBJlSGsY/t3sI+l7RcGn6/UrExCEIHyn1T4ZZCuoing0/W5vQHKUs3HHy4rITs5L xjnIb07/dInn++O082yVF1n5YwLNLOmRApXFYwD6+aOFLM1wCuXrYKXWUdcTLRGg PGExszD2QPJKA329UZSfP/iM02svhONaGXioEyTAbJw7aIUErTWFMt90Di1z8Fj5 51Fvkj0YawiQXNg3+YzSC6mJCeTWuZy8R5OEYc5BSDN4cakZyiaG2cedKGZNJMfB MAcCsNov4fqgpuFeglR5eibzZpy0a7Y2nj/LKQkjQeoHNloYm5XGFpHA0TL1ryLj gJNBn28DolzkwoOj3y5bcCx3wMNNujjh00yPmvaewmDMNDQuqcYTs+udikfc8lap GhIiR9zpctGfoYQFRbyoUw8MFN3I5CllKcMkqQtDtCIcgA+UL8NbqYSRIth90p2c WR0vpZHL1OdhlaVEo1PTNN5OWuThQPUoQCBc6/bQbb/bGAboZLKRRDiFfeIcREat 6j8+oB6mLtGB8+vZVgKW/NaKjmRG0yxJ3i5vRA+IrXskQH6ya2yFpwVT8lTMnvOZ hz9A6o5cnQKH+mnhG3IUUAC0+KqM2dcBoNbyvzp7JUzpvkcy2no= =M8sN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------Qav0WqtOq9GpvT00AbFXKs8Q--