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boundary="------------BKHKKKZSXOYhS781eIFovpgo"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jacob Keller To: Saeed Mahameed , Jakub Kicinski Cc: "David S. Miller" , Paolo Abeni , Eric Dumazet , Saeed Mahameed , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Tariq Toukan , Gal Pressman , Leon Romanovsky , Jiri Pirko , Simon Horman Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next V6 09/13] devlink: Add 'keep_link_up' generic devlink device param References: <20250709030456.1290841-1-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709030456.1290841-10-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709195801.60b3f4f2@kernel.org> <20250710152421.31901790@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: --------------BKHKKKZSXOYhS781eIFovpgo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 8/28/2025 1:09 PM, Saeed Mahameed wrote: > On 10 Jul 15:24, Jakub Kicinski wrote: >> On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 23:04:07 -0700 Saeed Mahameed wrote: >>> On 09 Jul 19:58, Jakub Kicinski wrote: >>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 20:04:51 -0700 Saeed Mahameed wrote: >>>>> Devices that support this in permanent mode will be requested to ke= ep the >>>>> port link up even when driver is not loaded, netdev carrier state w= on't >>>>> affect the physical port link state. >>>>> >>>>> This is useful for when the link is needed to access onboard manage= ment >>>>> such as BMC, even if the host driver isn't loaded. >>>> >>>> Dunno. This deserves a fuller API, and it's squarely and netdev thin= g. >>>> Let's not add it to devlink. >>> >>> I don't see anything missing in the definition of this parameter >>> 'keep_link_up' it is pretty much self-explanatory, for legacy reasons= the >>> netdev controls the underlying physical link state. But this is not >>> true anymore for complex setups (multi-host, DPU, etc..). >> >> The policy can be more complex than "keep_link_up" >> Look around the tree and search the ML archives please. >> >=20 > Sorry for replying late, had to work on other stuff and was waiting > internally for a question I had to ask about this, only recently got th= e > answer. >=20 > I get your point, but I am not trying to implement any link policy > or eth link specification tunables. For me and maybe other vendors > this knob makes sense, and Important for the usecase I described. >=20 > Perhaps move it to a vendor specific knob ? or rename to > link_{fw/soc}_controlled? >=20 Intel has also tried something similar sounding with the "link_down_on_close" in ethtool, which appears to be have made it in to ice and i40e.. (I thought I remembered these flags being rejected but I guess not?) I guess the ethtool flag is a bit difference since its relating to driver behavior when you bring the port down administratively, vs something like this which affects firmware control of the link regardless of its state to the kernel. >>> This is not different as BMC is sort of multi-host, and physical link= >>> control here is delegated to the firmware. >>> >>> Also do we really want netdev to expose API for permanent nic tunable= s ? >>> I thought this is why we invented devlink to offload raw NIC underlyi= ng >>> tunables. >> >> Are you going to add devlink params for link config? >> Its one of the things that's written into the NVMe, usually.. >=20 > No, the purpose of this NVM series is to setup FW boot parameters and n= ot spec related > tunables. >=20 This seems quite useful to me w.r.t to BMC access. I think its a stretch to say this implies the desire to add many other knobs. --------------BKHKKKZSXOYhS781eIFovpgo-- --------------a9hb0cnAhjGGp7Fwmim7RCW5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQQgQFSp1zOQVirsQx5qll0+bw8o6AUCaLdoTwUDAAAAAAAKCRBqll0+bw8o6Dg2 AQD0X7per9dnFO94OlnTAtBD5zmvQZGn+1DXnYJgLW9bhAD/c7BWtwb9uYDhxRcHxvX+F8rOkJ5n db1uPUlE+eSQpwA= =UWAF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------a9hb0cnAhjGGp7Fwmim7RCW5--