From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB6AE3B2FE5; Fri, 22 May 2026 10:35:00 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1779446103; cv=none; b=WBABXDDahv40L4q0xZiCwr1PctJqO8vN8uYjNRvnZSmcHnzJXpxiXLkV6jmSGCxqFp9YDd/uphOnixuU2NgsPsdf9sziaaB9LRWPqxXhFJQwa2nyvQ55tVETp1k2vpaq4kYOfFacxy3tlSK495XxXw904AiiBPtkAlWD0hls9Iw= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1779446103; c=relaxed/simple; bh=rR60BJO7B9L4b6QE4wRlnUA0XJuNiL54x0/rrtZ7Jxo=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=aAoaOytr9ZretdHpEj86pITItUjhMRnO7eDZF5BZ4VtwDdv6ugVu/jaC37Wm33J3gevaY12hTMLDpBsKhzcbTuzaa5yuob4c0U3TjqFJjk8STv9aEF7Xsv4YvirXsEezLRgbfcfSOy2R6wbb12rg9zvs+odnlR8z4Hf3rQ4CFh8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=lYqy/jqb; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="lYqy/jqb" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=OJwuH4/OnrJV5YoA7eVdj2CwUhyRm0uifDW/z1AQiok=; b=lYqy/jqbqz2GxyemXoZigaw2zP 7+hSFB26Nf08rW8eefYZcBQGSgGifYRB2mggbeW25KiAD2i/dwSM9H6cm7bxXyuYituxVHmwZVrPv j1AtEIi9BUidopV2blRBvuUJULniB7LB9IM6E2YyF5lxTR9AtEnF46ICyTa3msF7MeExh+MtTx6qy 3W50iX0Tip5WpoY95bu6Zj5e72QJa/4zQye8ca237oM4HtVFSrvLzhwkI6gnz/o558b0uFY9SBy73 EInRuZ6+zTL/DIRr4fasyjxfNk+xk1t8U5e5fH6njgJ0aN41aYDnnlOj2ajAOS8S9eA/WB+lN8tor KUu7kIEg==; Received: from 54-240-197-238.amazon.com ([54.240.197.238] helo=freeip.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1wQNDU-00000009xam-34T7; Fri, 22 May 2026 10:34:56 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v8 3/3] gve: implement PTP gettimex64 From: David Woodhouse To: Thomas Gleixner , Harshitha Ramamurthy , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Arthur Kiyanovski Cc: joshwash@google.com, andrew+netdev@lunn.ch, davem@davemloft.net, edumazet@google.com, kuba@kernel.org, pabeni@redhat.com, richardcochran@gmail.com, jstultz@google.com, sboyd@kernel.org, willemb@google.com, nktgrg@google.com, jfraker@google.com, ziweixiao@google.com, maolson@google.com, jordanrhee@google.com, thostet@google.com, alok.a.tiwari@oracle.com, pkaligineedi@google.com, horms@kernel.org, jacob.e.keller@intel.com, yyd@google.com, jefrogers@google.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Naman Gulati , Thomas =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Wei=DFschuh?= Date: Fri, 22 May 2026 11:34:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87bje8v0xl.ffs@tglx> References: <20260514225842.110706-1-hramamurthy@google.com> <20260514225842.110706-4-hramamurthy@google.com> <87tss0vdrj.ffs@tglx> <63ff978516925951df0f95aecbd4ea5d7bb2956e.camel@infradead.org> <87bje8v0xl.ffs@tglx> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-pDrdbFyYJXrhnDe/A9mi" User-Agent: Evolution 3.52.3-0ubuntu1.1 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-pDrdbFyYJXrhnDe/A9mi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2026-05-22 at 00:43 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: >=20 > Fine, but you can only do that accurately if you have the relevant > parameters: >=20 I had elided this discussion about KVM migration as a digression, but I'm coming back to it because I think it could use the clock_get_reference_time() thing we were talking about. > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1) Guest TSC value at freeze > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2) Guest nominal TSC frequency > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3) Old host REALTIME at freeze - Ideally you use= TAI > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4) New host TSC frequency > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5) New host TSC/REALTIME/TAI snapshot >=20 > =C2=A0 #1 is a KVM problem, but see #3 > =C2=A0=20 > =C2=A0 #2 ideally communicated from the guest to the host after early > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 initialization at boot. >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You really want this information because the gue= st won't change the > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mult/shift pair for it ever. If *tell* the guest the frequency in CPUID, then it shouldn't be trying to manually calibrate it against an emulated PIT while suffering steal time, and its mult/shift should have a little bit less entropy. Even a system which *has* to do that crappy calibration still does it with a lot more *precision* than accuracy, so I suspect we ought to be rounding the result to the nearest 1MHz as long as that's within 10PPM or something like that. But that really *is* a digression :) > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 That is more accurate than using the scaling fac= tor on the old host > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 plus the old host frequency. Especially if you a= re migrating the VM > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 several times because every migration results ob= viously in rounding > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 errors, while if you use the nominal guest frequ= ency you keep this > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 back and forth conversions and the resulting err= ors out of the way. >=20 > =C2=A0 #3 That's obviously related to #1 >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The old host knows the guest TSC scaling and the= guest offset, so > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 it can take a coherent snapshot on the host side= of REALTIME/TAI > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and the host TSC value, which is convertible to = the guest TSC > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value. >=20 > =C2=A0 #4, 5 >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 are obviously required to set up the new host sc= aling/offset for > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the guest TSC, but if based on the nominal assum= ed TSC frequency of > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the guest it becomes actually accurate and usabl= e across several > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 migrations. >=20 > Anything else is just crystal ball magic, which is what KVM has today.... The model I'm enabling and documenting for KVM migration is basically within the noise of what you describe above, yes. But if we want to give the illusion of the TSC just ticking away while the guest happens to experience a little steal time, when in fact it's been completely migrated to a new host, we actually want to work with the *true* running frequency of the TSC at the moment of migration. So...=20 1)=C2=A0Use clock_get_time_reference() to get a { host tsc, time, rate } from the source host at 'freeze' time.=20 2) Use clock_get_time_reference() to get a { host tsc, time, rate } from the destination host, when resuming. 3) (Optionally) scale the guest's TSC frequency, not by the *nominal*=C2= =A0 rates, but by the *actual* ratio of the rates from (1) and (2) above (plus any original nominal scaling of the guest's TSC from the original host). 4) Calculate the guest TSC *offset* in order to convey the effect that the guest's TSC continued to tick at the rate from (1), during the time period between (1) and (2). 5) (Optionally) Once the guest is running, slowly undo the scaling in=C2=A0(1) in order to get the guest back to a nice simple unscaled TSC (or scaled only by nominal frequencies as it was when launched) Obviously, a dedicated environment which disciplines its TSC directly can do all of that right now already because it *has* all the information it would get from clock_get_time_reference(). But as you know perfectly well, Thomas, I'm never happy to keep the blinkers on and focus only on my specific use case at hand; I want this to work for the *general* case, including people running QEMU in a fairly standard environment. And I think clock_get_time_reference() might be a reasonable way of doing that, and a fairly clean counterpart to the clock_set_time_reference() you suggested? --=-pDrdbFyYJXrhnDe/A9mi Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCD9Aw ggSOMIIDdqADAgECAhAOmiw0ECVD4cWj5DqVrT9PMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBDQTAeFw0yNDAxMzAwMDAwMDBaFw0zMTEx MDkyMzU5NTlaMEExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMRAwDgYDVQQKEwdWZXJva2V5MSAwHgYDVQQDExdWZXJv a2V5IFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBHMjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMjvgLKj jfhCFqxYyRiW8g3cNFAvltDbK5AzcOaR7yVzVGadr4YcCVxjKrEJOgi7WEOH8rUgCNB5cTD8N/Et GfZI+LGqSv0YtNa54T9D1AWJy08ZKkWvfGGIXN9UFAPMJ6OLLH/UUEgFa+7KlrEvMUupDFGnnR06 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