From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6685C32751 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCBC20659 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="aVm2tlJb" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729021AbfGaV7G (ORCPT ); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:59:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f194.google.com ([209.85.214.194]:37170 "EHLO mail-pl1-f194.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726231AbfGaV7G (ORCPT ); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:59:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f194.google.com with SMTP id b3so31091869plr.4 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:59:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=df0erg+vMjIK+Rh7AauGXtn2j8HB/8B84v5g4eTevp8=; b=aVm2tlJbp7DBasChYrfHly031zDPy9JI41+m/MBzIu4DrC9Sx5NcZTramNsCJINlxr tFVs5tQhHYLs5wl4w0Nl594DwXnmDDUsWk9e6sedZO7JdpgG80pg4ORTRS6KKjY5EXWW Gg7s5WbKYojeiOEHIbORWLvNbVVHfpr+lE5Q8FwTKtkifJQq1rR/OEd0KvYpGsWiJQql Hz0M34VimCz2FNOft9TJ1LOSGNS6l8jLNi7fLWdUDoY6Tl8kvVqxL4H7kpymNGpbMo6/ pgaa0HSmD3B26CJaL0L0tMXlnU8TGTmzbfGyicq78VhQNmUD1poTigRcd0WqW/2RwtOB DLMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=df0erg+vMjIK+Rh7AauGXtn2j8HB/8B84v5g4eTevp8=; b=RRsMYTBH88Ms7SZz7uDG0Q/N0PlZ18CA1yRYLe2+XwZJX2jNLhgklN9AH0dvVQdpRG zlCz+pDVtevFpDRLIJqJun2hMZ2ZRrGovxJufl5TTTRDwAYMNQkbbhdN8VBmaPnAYf9F hVq+sam0wynKbE1pefQ5H45z4EtmWlQvPcA7dr47USu05y6Tb58IhNymij/TleTUdGyQ M0s6c+4mRM6pb1EOascoofwXMufzOLHDcpvC5GR764i0faVCTv58k6B885OpfWngb5mc WF6HN9H+IZ5Y4oxniopMfYiw5tS3hQHqMnge8AAhhA6Qu76CkiVBSwj3/QS3wxZ4GRa6 EGqw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWqiYMNaL79ZTb94xxcm57kcu1pDcPgOoicUzSDjErZL/sFkoGl X4YU62vFJC9Jl1IkJ6yKoOBiZCDc X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwMf7k0hAMXDsQ7zo6JV4DcSgSjy9B9nzxL5nCNhOjnbYSK+cJ/bfeNw5qyjPgzKGZQ/aLtdw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:2baa:: with SMTP id l39mr123698629plb.280.1564610345416; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.27.227.172] ([216.129.126.118]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id v138sm79569908pfc.15.2019.07.31.14.59.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/2] tools: bpftool: add net (un)load command to load XDP To: Jakub Kicinski Cc: Alexei Starovoitov , "Daniel T. Lee" , Stephen Hemminger , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , John Fastabend , Daniel Borkmann , Alexei Starovoitov , David Miller , netdev@vger.kernel.org References: <20190730184821.10833-1-danieltimlee@gmail.com> <20190730155915.5bbe3a03@cakuba.netronome.com> <20190730231754.efh3fj4mnsbv445l@ast-mbp> <20190730170725.279761e7@cakuba.netronome.com> <20190731002338.d4lp2grsmm3aaav3@ast-mbp> <20190730182144.1355bf50@cakuba.netronome.com> From: David Ahern Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:59:02 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190730182144.1355bf50@cakuba.netronome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netdev-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On 7/30/19 7:21 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > >>>> If bpftool was taught to do equivalent of 'ip link' that would be >>>> very different story and I would be opposed to that. >>> Yes, that'd be pretty clear cut, only the XDP stuff is a bit more >>> of a judgement call. >> bpftool must be able to introspect every aspect of bpf programming. >> That includes detaching and attaching anywhere. >> Anyone doing 'bpftool p s' should be able to switch off particular >> prog id without learning ten different other tools. > I think the fact that we already have an implementation in iproute2, > which is at the risk of bit rot is more important to me that the > hypothetical scenario where everyone knows to just use bpftool (for > XDP, for TC it's still iproute2 unless there's someone crazy enough > to reimplement the TC functionality :)) apparently the iproute2 version has bit rot which is a shame. > > I'm not sure we can settle our differences over email :) > I have tremendous respect for all the maintainers I CCed here, > if nobody steps up to agree with me I'll concede the bpftool net > battle entirely :) bpftool started as an introspection tool and has turned into a one stop shop for all things ebpf. I am mixed on whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.