* Re: [RFC] Fine-grained memory priorities and PI
From: Andi Kleen @ 2005-12-15 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Moffett; +Cc: Andi Kleen, David S. Miller, sri, mpm, linux-kernel, netdev
In-Reply-To: <8FC3785F-01B3-4F9A-9E3C-89E90CB719B0@mac.com>
> Naturally this is all still in the vaporware stage, but I think that
> if implemented the concept might at least improve the OOM/low-memory
> situation considerably. Starting to fail allocations for the cluster
> programs (including their kernel allocations) well before failing
> them for the swap-fallback tool would help the original poster, and I
> imagine various tweaked priorities would make true OOM-deadlock far
> less likely.
The problem is that deadlocks can happen even without anybody
running out of virtual memory. The deadlocks GFP_CRITICAL
was supposed to handle are deadlocks while swapping out data
because the swapping on some devices needs more memory by itself.
This happens long before anything is running into a true oom.
It's just that the memory cleaning stage cannot make progress
anymore.
Your proposal isn't addressing this problem at all I think.
Handling true OOM is a quite different issue.
-Andi
^ permalink raw reply
* Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/3] TCP/IP Critical socket communication mechanism
From: jamal @ 2005-12-15 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Arjan van de Ven
Cc: James Courtier-Dutton, Mitchell Blank Jr, Jesper Juhl,
Sridhar Samudrala, linux-kernel, netdev
In-Reply-To: <1134652070.16486.44.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org>
On Thu, 2005-15-12 at 14:07 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 08:00 -0500, jamal wrote:
> > The big hole punched by DaveM is that of dependencies: a http tcp
> > connection is tied to ICMP or the IPSEC example given; so you need a lot
> > more intelligence than just what your app is knowledgeable about at its
> > level.
>
> yeah well sort of. You're right of course, but that also doesn't mean
> you can't give hints from the other side. Like "data for this socked is
> NOT critical important". It gets tricky if you only do it for OOM stuff;
> because then that one ACK packet could cause a LOT of memory to be
> freed, and as such can be important for the system even if the socket
> isn't.
>
true - but thats _just one input_ into a complex policy decision
process. The other is clearly VM realizing some type of threshold has
been crossed. The output being a policy decision of what to drop - which
gets very interesting if one looks at it being as fine grained as "drop
ACKS".
The fallacy in the proposed solution is that it simplisticly ties
the decision to VM input and the network level input to sockets; as in
the example of sockets doing http requests.
Methinks what is needed is something which keeps state and takes input
from the sockets and the VM and then runs some algorithm to decide what
needs to be the final policy that gets installed at the low level kernel
(tc classifier level or hardware). Sockets provide hints that they are
critical. The box admin could override what is important.
cheers,
jamal
^ permalink raw reply
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* Re: 2.6.15rc5-git4 Forcedeth unstable on Nforce4 - it's not TSO
From: Andi Kleen @ 2005-12-16 0:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ayaz Abdulla; +Cc: jgarzik, netdev
In-Reply-To: <DBFABB80F7FD3143A911F9E6CFD477B00BA5DC41@hqemmail02.nvidia.com>
I spoke too early when I said earlier that #undef NETIF_F_TSO fixes it.
Without it it seems to survive longer, but I still get occasional corrupted
MACs.
-Andi
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* Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/3] TCP/IP Critical socket communication mechanism
From: Sridhar Samudrala @ 2005-12-16 2:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David S. Miller; +Cc: mpm, ak, linux-kernel, netdev
In-Reply-To: <20051215.002120.133621586.davem@davemloft.net>
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 00:21 -0800, David S. Miller wrote:
> From: Sridhar Samudrala <sri@us.ibm.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:37:37 -0800 (PST)
>
> > Instead, you seem to be suggesting in_emergency to be set dynamically
> > when we are about to run out of ATOMIC memory. Is this right?
>
> Not when we run out, but rather when we reach some low water mark, the
> "critical sockets" would still use GFP_ATOMIC memory but only
> "critical sockets" would be allowed to do so.
>
> But even this has faults, consider the IPSEC scenerio I mentioned, and
> this applies to any kind of encapsulation actually, even simple
> tunneling examples can be concocted which make the "critical socket"
> idea fail.
>
> The knee jerk reaction is "mark IPSEC's sockets critical, and mark the
> tunneling allocations critical, and... and..." well you have
> GFP_ATOMIC then my friend.
I would like to mention another reason why we need to have a new
GFP_CRITICAL flag for an allocation request. When we are in emergency,
even the GFP_KERNEL allocations for a critical socket should not
sleep. This is because the swap device may have failed and we would
like to communicate this event to a management server over the
critical socket so that it can initiate the failover.
We are not trying to solve swapping over network problem. It is much
simpler. The critical sockets are to be used only to send/receive
a few critical messages reliably during a short period of emergency.
Thanks
Sridhar
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* (no subject)
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^ permalink raw reply
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* Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/3] TCP/IP Critical socket communication mechanism
From: Bodo Eggert @ 2005-12-16 8:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David S. Miller, dlstevens, shemminger, ak, linux-kernel, mpm,
netdev, netdev-owner, sri
In-Reply-To: <5jXhZ-4kj-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
David S. Miller <davem@davemloft.net> wrote:
> The idea to mark, for example, IPSEC key management daemon's sockets
> as critical is flawed, because the key management daemon could hit a
> swap page over the iSCSI device. Don't even start with the idea to
> lock the IPSEC key management daemon into ram with mlock().
How are you going to swap in the key manager if you need the key manager
for doing this?
However, I'd prefer a system where you can't dirty mor than (e.g.) 80 % of
RAM unless you need this to maintain vital system activity and not more
than 95 % unless it will help to get more clean RAM. (Like the priority
inheritance suggestion from this thread.) I suppose this to least
significantly reduce thrashing and give a very good chance of recovering
from memory pressure. Off cause the implementation won't be easy,
especially if userspace applications need to inherit priority from
different code paths, but in theory, it can be done.
--
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verbreiteten Lügen zu sabotieren.
^ permalink raw reply
* Paris_Hilton_&_Nicole_Richie
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