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Tue, 03 Nov 2026 09:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([151.60.201.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4ac0a66caefsm287061365e9.5.2026.11.03.09.21.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Nov 2026 09:21:55 -0800 (PST) X-Mailing-List: ntfs3@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2026 18:21:53 +0100 Message-Id: Cc: "David Sterba" , "Alexander Viro" , "Christian Brauner" , "Namjae Jeon" , "Sungjong Seo" , "Konstantin Komarov" , "Chris Mason" , "Jan Kara" , "Yuezhang Mo" , "Chuck Lever" , "Darrick J . Wong" , "Sean Smith" , "Andrey Albershteyn" , "Pedro Falcato" , =?utf-8?q?Pali_Roh=C3=A1r?= , , , , , , Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/5] add provenance time (ptime) From: "koraynilay" To: "Amir Goldstein" , "koraynilay" X-Mailer: aerc 0.22.0-0-gc2f86b7abde3 References: <20261101015551.786044-1-koray.fra@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue Nov 3, 2026 at 4:12 PM CET, Amir Goldstein wrote: > On Tue, Nov 3, 2026 at 12:25=E2=80=AFPM koraynilay = wrote: >> >> On Mon Nov 2, 2026 at 3:54 PM CET, Amir Goldstein wrote: >> > On Sun, Nov 1, 2026 at 2:57=E2=80=AFAM koraynilay wrote: >> >> >> >> This is an initial implementation of a new timestamp to indicate the >> >> time when a file/directory was initially created. >> >> >> >> This patch series takes inspiration from the one by Sean Smith >> >> [1], but using >> >> file_setattr()/file_getattr() as suggested by Darrick J. Wong >> >> in [2]. >> >> >> >> The semantics of this new timestamp should be at least these: >> >> - it should be the same as btime on a newly created file >> >> - it's user-settable, so it can be preserved for backups, filesystem >> >> conversions, archives and any similar operation >> >> - it should be preserved every time mtime gets preserved >> >> >> >> and the correspondence with the other timestamps is as follows: >> >> >> >> ctime <-> btime >> >> mtime <-> ptime >> >> >> >> Examples: >> >> 1) a .zsh_history file created in 2019, then after a few years the us= er >> >> decides to switch to another filesystem, copying the .zsh_history = to >> >> the new home, in that case btime would have the timestamp of the c= opy >> >> and ptime would have the 2019 timestamp (just like mtime would hav= e >> >> been preserved) >> >> 2) a symlink created in 2020 from the home directory to a /path going >> >> through the same process as the .zsh_history, in this case it woul= d >> >> also make sense to sync the ptime to the 2020 timestamp instead of >> >> keeping only the btime (so the inode creation time). >> >> >> >> The proof-of-concept code (for testing) for stat(1) and cp(1) is >> >> available at https://github.com/koraynilay/coreutils (master branch) >> >> (Note: these coreutils code changes are a prototype and won't be >> >> submitted upstream as-is, but they work as expected in simple stat an= d >> >> cp -a/--preserve=3Dptime tests) >> >> >> >> Lastly, the name "provenance" and "ptime" are not final, I personally >> >> don't have a strong opinion on any name, but while testing with stat(= 1) >> >> I noticed that "Provenance" is definitely too long for the normal >> >> output, so another option which would fit well is "Origin time", >> >> abbreviated as "ntime" (OrigiN time) and not as "otime", as that woul= d >> >> conflict with btrfs' internal naming and create confusion. >> > >> > FWIW, I agree that given the existing uses of btime and crtime in the >> > kernel and various XXXprogs, using 'ptime' for kernel code is probably >> > the lesser evil. >> >> What do you think about the origiN time (ntime) (Origin: in stat)? >> It would also coincidentally be alphabetically (ntime <-> mtime, n -> m) >> the same as btime <-> ctime (b -> c) ahah. >> > > Honestly I don't know. > My new idea is don't publish it in statx() at all. Well I was more talking about the actual variable names in all patches ahah. Thanks, koraynilay > Thanks, > Amir. --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQRJ2XvJtXGwULYEerQ0bnTtJTDoOAUCauoYMQAKCRA0bnTtJTDo OI2UAQDfLMxbWJxZCtj5g/a2TQHWFv3yLHmv7IEjclN8pYY5IgD/VFtdYZ3g+FW5 oxEEhXF7xBfTTV5O+6Ag8QIL/lM51wc= =XiPH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8--