From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from 93-97-173-237.zone5.bethere.co.uk ([93.97.173.237] helo=tim.rpsys.net) by linuxtogo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SoWGb-0005sl-DV for openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:57:57 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tim.rpsys.net (8.13.6/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q6A8kkAH015147 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:46:46 +0100 Received: from tim.rpsys.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (tim.rpsys.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15028-01 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:46:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.3.10] ([192.168.3.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by tim.rpsys.net (8.13.6/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q6A8kb2e015141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:46:39 +0100 Message-ID: <1341909998.23941.20.camel@ted> From: Richard Purdie To: Patches and discussions about the oe-core layer Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:46:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.2- Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rpsys.net Subject: Re: The Mythical Sato Replacement X-BeenThere: openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Patches and discussions about the oe-core layer List-Id: Patches and discussions about the oe-core layer List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:57:57 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2012-07-09 at 15:36 -0700, Khem Raj wrote: > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Burton, Ross wrote: > > > > Shuku will be a descendent of Sato, that is continue to use the > > Matchbox Window Manager, Desktop, and Panel; although the latter two > > will be updated for GTK+ 3. All applications will be removed and > > fully reconsidered when adding back, so the text editor might well > > change from leafpad to something that had a release in two years, > > Midori is looking like a good web browser choice instead of Web, the > > PIM suite removed, and so on. > > Did you consider QT instead of GTK+ ? I think having wayland would be cool. Ross didn't cover the question "Why do we need anything in OE-Core at all?". The answer is that we do need *something* to actually test the components we build. Its all well and good having toolchains, libraries, architecture support, graphics, X11 etc. but if we can't tell whether it works or not we're in a bad way. I've said this before but I want to make it really clear that I believe in testing what we ship, otherwise its worthless. As I see it, there are some significant advantages of matchbox: a) It doesn't put us in any one UI camp. I don't want OE-Core to be seen as Qt only, or GNOME only, or enlightenment only. I know matchbox uses GNOME components but its sufficiently different that it illustrates a key value of what the OE architecture offers, the ability to customise and innovate. As such I think it makes a compelling reference UI. b) Its simple. There is no large complex stack to build and include. c) Ownership wise, we can choose which direction to take some of the matchbox/sato components in, not least as Ross authored matchbox-desktop and matchbox-panel version 2. We also need to be mindful of resources and expertise which is something people perhaps don't immediately realise. Whist I've been able to find the Yocto Project resources to cover the work on the core and much of the feature development work we want to undertake, I've struggled to convince people to put development resources into replacing Sato as its hard to make a business case for or give a specific target for the UI. As such, any plan which involves significant development effort is not going to be resource feasible. A nice feature of Ross' plan is that it can be done incrementally to a degree, it doesn't involve large amounts of development effort and we have expertise directly on the team for most of the work needed. Cheers, Richard