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Fri, 11 Apr 2025 08:55:12 +0000 Received: from AS8PR04MB8644.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e86d:f110:534e:480a]) by AS8PR04MB8644.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e86d:f110:534e:480a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.8632.024; Fri, 11 Apr 2025 08:55:11 +0000 Message-ID: <73578c4c-6107-4fac-ab34-9f065db39d81@topic.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 10:55:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [OE-core] python3: Allow to specify which pyc files to keep To: openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org References: <31851.1744290321098835072@lists.openembedded.org> Content-Language: nl, en-US From: Mike Looijmans Organization: TOPIC In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ClientProxiedBy: AS4P250CA0009.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:5df::10) To AS8PR04MB8644.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:42b::12) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AS8PR04MB8644:EE_|PA1PR04MB10697:EE_|AMS1EPF00000045:EE_|DBAPR04MB7464:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 66a3e7ee-f15e-4c49-a68e-08dd78d69354 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Untrusted: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|366016|376014; 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X-OriginatorOrg: topic.nl X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2025 08:55:14.6455 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 66a3e7ee-f15e-4c49-a68e-08dd78d69354 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 449607a5-3517-482d-8d16-41dd868cbda3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=449607a5-3517-482d-8d16-41dd868cbda3;Ip=[13.93.42.39];Helo=[westeu12-emailsignatures-cloud.codetwo.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AMS1EPF00000045.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBAPR04MB7464 List-Id: X-Webhook-Received: from li982-79.members.linode.com [45.33.32.79] by aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org with HTTPS for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2025 08:55:29 -0000 X-Groupsio-URL: https://lists.openembedded.org/g/openembedded-core/message/214720 On 10-04-2025 16:31, Alexander Kanavin via lists.openembedded.org wrote: > On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 at 15:05, Lukas Woodtli via lists.openembedded.org > wrote: >> The reason to use these features of the Python interpreter is that we de= velop for >> resource restricted devices. The target device should not need to compil= e the Python >> files to byte-code at runtime (which happens regardless of the optimizat= ion level). >> We can do this work at build time. Moreover, Embedded devices usually >> have restricted storage size. So using the optimization level 2 for pyc = files is sensible. >> Most embedded devices don't need the docstrings in the Python files (sim= milar to >> not needing the man pages). So we can get rid of them (that is what opti= mization >> level 2 does, apart from disabling asserts). > Most embedded devices also need to be robust. Lest you forget, python > and its extensions are written in C, and asserts prevent what is > over-generously termed 'undefined behavior', with a loud crash. Which > is a feature some people find useful. Can you demonstrate speedups? > > Docstrings argument as well needs to be substantiated with numbers. > How much space is actually being saved? > > Is there anything else to these optimizations? Is it documented > anywhere? How can we know if it changes over time, with new python > releases? I feel like this needs to be considered far more carefully > than you have so far. Getting a deja-vu feel here... We've used a similar approach in the past fo= r=20 OpenPLi, as we had to cram the full DVB settop box GUI firmware into 32MB N= AND=20 flash for some boxes. The impact of the "optimization" on runtime performance was negligible, and= =20 we're talking about 200-400 MHz MIPS CPU systems in those days. Python's optimization level 2 is sure to break things. Quite a large softwa= re=20 base uses asserts and docstrings for their internal purposes. One might arg= ue=20 that that is "broken", but that's not something that can be fixed from this= =20 side... We didn't experience any ill effects from optimization level 1, so the we j= ust=20 patched the Python stuff to just always use that, regardless of the file=20 extension being pyc. As for space savings, the best thing was to omit the "py" files. That resul= ts=20 in more than halving the space required. To accomplish that, we split the=20 packages and put all "py" source files into a "-src" package. So on the end= =20 product, only the pyc files got installed and developers could optionally=20 install some -src packages if they wanted to hack on the box itself (the ma= jor=20 advantage of using Python). M.