[Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

I decided to try and install Win98.  Here are some comments about the Windows cvs build 20050223 downloaded from FreeOSZoo.  (I have tried a few other cvs versions from there, and they have the same problems.)


There seems to be a serious problem with the guest OS (Win98, WinME) detecting when the cd image has changed.  This means the guest is completely unable to do the compliance check, for example.

Occasionally it'll detect that you've changed it.  But not usually.

I haven't heard anybody else comment about this, so I figured I should.


Qemu has major problems with spaces in pathnames.  For example, when changing the cd to try and do the compliance check, it can't handle: "h:\win 9x\win 98.iso"

Qemu wont accept quotes around it, either.

Realistically, qemu should just accept the rest of the line as being the path.


It'd be nice if qemu gave an error message when you enter a pathname for a disk image that doesn't exist.


Once during the upgrade check, I tried to change the cd, I went into Windows dialog thing to change from C: to E: and it hadn't recognised the cd change.  I accidently clicked on a directory from the old ISO image.  That caused qemu to crash and immediately abort.  It might have displayed a brief error notice or something, but it flashed by so quick I couldn't read it.

Needless to say, it's not a "good thing" when the entire emulator crashes.


I accidently tried qemu on a very damaged ISO that Nero had just made for me.  From the Win98 boot floppy, changing to the cd drive or doing a directory on it would cause qemu to abort.



Eventually I just made up a cd image with Win98 and the old Win3 files (for complianc check) and I managed to mostly install Win98.

But it blue screened after the reboot during the final part of the installation.


I've also tried Win98se, WinME and XP.  None successfully.  All crashed or were unable to continue due to the cd change bug.

I don't know if these problems are specific to the windows ports on FreeOSZoo or not.

But to put it very simply.... Qemu is most definetly not ready to actually use!

I've read people installing Win98se, XP, linux, etc. but I can definetly say the daily windows builds aren't that reliable.


The only successful OS's I've installed are DOS and FreeDOS.  Dr. DOS 7.03 doesn't work right.  Some stuff in FreeDOS doesn't work right.  And some programs under DOS don't work right.

Again, I don't know if I just happen to have tried the versions on FreeOSZoo that were broken, or if there is a problem with the Windows builds, or if qemu is just that bad with Microsoft products (and FreeDos and Dr.DOS.)

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Darryl Dixon]

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Whilst I disagree with your conclusion (Qemu not ready for use!?!), what
you mention about the CD is valid and a real problem.  I haven't seen
Qemu crash because
of it, but in every Windows guest OS I've tried (Win98se, WinXP,
Win2000, Win2003, Longhorn) you actually need to go into Explorer in the
guest and tell it to eject
the CDROM (right-click -> eject) and then do the eject from the Qemu
monitor and change to a new image before the Windows guest will
recognise that a new disk
has been inserted.  Of course this isn't possible when actually running
the OS install.

It seems that there must be some sort of event, or memory flagged when a
normal CDROM Eject button is pushed that Qemu doesn't emulate.

Cheers,
D

On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 16:53 -0600, jeebs@yango.us wrote:

>I decided to try and install Win98.  Here are some comments about the Windows cvs build 20050223 downloaded from FreeOSZoo.  (I have tried a few other cvs versions from there, and they have the same problems.)
>
>
>There seems to be a serious problem with the guest OS (Win98, WinME) detecting when the cd image has changed.  This means the guest is completely unable to do the compliance check, for example.
>
>Occasionally it'll detect that you've changed it.  But not usually.
>
>I haven't heard anybody else comment about this, so I figured I should.
>
>
>Qemu has major problems with spaces in pathnames.  For example, when changing the cd to try and do the compliance check, it can't handle: "h:\win 9x\win 98.iso"
>
>Qemu wont accept quotes around it, either.
>
>Realistically, qemu should just accept the rest of the line as being the path.
>
>
>It'd be nice if qemu gave an error message when you enter a pathname for a disk image that doesn't exist.
>
>
>Once during the upgrade check, I tried to change the cd, I went into Windows dialog thing to change from C: to E: and it hadn't recognised the cd change.  I accidently clicked on a directory from the old ISO image.  That caused qemu to crash and immediately abort.  It might have displayed a brief error notice or something, but it flashed by so quick I couldn't read it.
>
>Needless to say, it's not a "good thing" when the entire emulator crashes.
>
>
>I accidently tried qemu on a very damaged ISO that Nero had just made for me.  From the Win98 boot floppy, changing to the cd drive or doing a directory on it would cause qemu to abort.
>
>
>
>Eventually I just made up a cd image with Win98 and the old Win3 files (for complianc check) and I managed to mostly install Win98.
>
>But it blue screened after the reboot during the final part of the installation.
>
>
>I've also tried Win98se, WinME and XP.  None successfully.  All crashed or were unable to continue due to the cd change bug.
>
>I don't know if these problems are specific to the windows ports on FreeOSZoo or not.
>
>But to put it very simply.... Qemu is most definetly not ready to actually use!
>
>I've read people installing Win98se, XP, linux, etc. but I can definetly say the daily windows builds aren't that reliable.
>
>
>The only successful OS's I've installed are DOS and FreeDOS.  Dr. DOS 7.03 doesn't work right.  Some stuff in FreeDOS doesn't work right.  And some programs under DOS don't work right.
>
>Again, I don't know if I just happen to have tried the versions on FreeOSZoo that were broken, or if there is a problem with the Windows builds, or if qemu is just that bad with Microsoft products (and FreeDos and Dr.DOS.)
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Qemu-devel mailing list
>Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
>http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Darryl Dixon <esrever_otua@pythonhacker.is-a-geek.net>

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Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

From: "Darryl Dixon" <esrever_otua@pythonhacker.is-a-geek.net>

> Whilst I disagree with your conclusion (Qemu not ready for use!?!), what

I couldn't get Win98, Win98se, WinME or WinXP installed and running.  If I got pass the cd change problem, then I'd get a blue screen later.

If I could get something other than DOS installed and working, then I might agree with you...

To me, it's not ready for use.    As I tried to stress, maybe it's a problem with the daily windows builds on FreeOSZoo.  Maybe the regular qemu version works fine.  I don't know.

I just know I tried 4 cvs versions (two were picked at random) and I couldn't get Windows installed.

I haven't tried every version of qemu posted, so I don't know when the problem first showed up, or if it's been there the whole time and I just somehow didn't notice.  (I might have used a 'combined' cd with Windows and Win3 for compliance, so I didn't need to change the cd.  And maybe I used some runtime option that somehow changed things enough that allowed Windows 98 to install.  Or maybe...[shrug])


> you mention about the CD is valid and a real problem.  I haven't seen
> Qemu crash because

This happened 3 times.  After the first time, I tried it again with Win98, and then did it with Win98se too.


> of it, but in every Windows guest OS I've tried (Win98se, WinXP,
> Win2000, Win2003, Longhorn) you actually need to go into Explorer in the
> guest and tell it to eject
> the CDROM (right-click -> eject) and then do the eject from the Qemu


Most of the time, I only did a "change" command to change the cdrom image.

But I did try 'eject' first, and then do a 'change' and that didn't help either.

(I know that's not quite what you were talking about, but I thought it worth mentioning.)


So there's definetly a problem during the install.  And from what you say, even when you get the OS installed, there's still a problem.

I don't know why nobody else has mentioned it.  (If they have, then I haven't seen it.)  I don't know if this is a Windows build problem or if the Linux versions have it too.

 
Again, I don't know if this is a regular qemu problem, or if it's a Windows cvs build problem, or what.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Mike Swanson]

I actually believe your problems, save one, are specific to the
Windows build of QEMU. the CD-ROM changing is the only one that I
encounter >_>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

From: "Mike Swanson" <mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com>

>I actually believe your problems, save one, are specific to the
> Windows build of QEMU. the CD-ROM changing is the only one that I

Been around a while, huh?  You'd think somebody would want to find and fix this bug....

> encounter >_>

Fine.

I'm quite willing to say it's a Windows specific problem.

I'm even willing to say it might be isolated to the particular compiler being used by the guy who makes the cvs windows versions available on FreeOSZoo.

Heck, I'm even willing to accept the excuse that it's due to the color socks the guy wears when he builds the daily versions for FreeOSZoo!

But whatever the cause of the problem, the only thing I know for sure is that I've spent three days trying to get anything other than MS-DOS to install.  Even FreeDos and Dr.DOS703 have problems.  And that it's not limited to a specific cvs build.


(And apparently not too many people try the daily Windows builds....  Otherwise I think somebody else would have noticed these problems by now...)

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Damien Mascord]

Hi Jeebs,

Give it a go with 
http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~kazuw/qemu-win/qemu-0.6.1-windows-2.zip and 
see how you fare...

Obviously that version is a bit older, though the TAP version [which is 
quite useful] 
http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~kazuw/qemu-win/qemu-20050121-tap.zip will 
probably give you better mileage that an automated CVS build...

As a last resort, perhaps try to build the latest CVS source using the 
following instructions:

http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/PortingTips-en.html

Hope that gives you some help,

Damien

jeebs@yango.us wrote:

>From: "Mike Swanson" <mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com>
>
>  
>
>>I actually believe your problems, save one, are specific to the
>>Windows build of QEMU. the CD-ROM changing is the only one that I
>>    
>>
>
>Been around a while, huh?  You'd think somebody would want to find and fix this bug....
>
>  
>
>>encounter >_>
>>    
>>
>
>Fine.
>
>I'm quite willing to say it's a Windows specific problem.
>
>I'm even willing to say it might be isolated to the particular compiler being used by the guy who makes the cvs windows versions available on FreeOSZoo.
>
>Heck, I'm even willing to accept the excuse that it's due to the color socks the guy wears when he builds the daily versions for FreeOSZoo!
>
>But whatever the cause of the problem, the only thing I know for sure is that I've spent three days trying to get anything other than MS-DOS to install.  Even FreeDos and Dr.DOS703 have problems.  And that it's not limited to a specific cvs build.
>
>
>(And apparently not too many people try the daily Windows builds....  Otherwise I think somebody else would have noticed these problems by now...)
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Qemu-devel mailing list
>Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
>http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
>  
>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

From: "Damien Mascord" <tusker@tusker.org>
> 
> Give it a go with 
> http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~kazuw/qemu-win/qemu-0.6.1-windows-2.zip and 
> see how you fare...

A little better, but only a little.

At the point where Win98 asks me to point it to my old windows files (to verify for Win98 being an 'upgrade') and I change the cd:

1) Twice the guest appeared to lock up.  I'd switch to the cd drive and the hour glass would show up, and nothing further would happen.  I couldn't even move the mouse cursor.

2) Once I was able to actually switch to the new cd iso image.  (Although I didn't go any further because I did #3 next.)

3) After I managed to switch it to the right ISO image, I decided to try and switch to another ISO image.  That change failed.  It showed the previous directory structure on the cd.  When I clicked on an invalid directory, nothing else happened.  Qemu didn't crash (like before), but nothing happened and I couldn't get Win98 to quit, so I could point it to the right directory or try changing the cd again.

4) In one test, when I tried changing the cd, it wouldn't recognise any cd image I tried.

In the final test, I used my cd image that has Win98 and Win 3 (for upgrade check) on it.  That way I didn't have to do the cd change.

In that test, it behaved like the ones from FreeOSZoo.  Namely, it blue screened after the first reboot.

I forgot to check to see if it accepts spaces in the pathnames, but I have no reason to believe it does.


(And for the record, these are the same images I've used under vmware.  So they are correct and working.)

> As a last resort, perhaps try to build the latest CVS source using the 
> following instructions:

I'd rather not build my own.  I don't have any compilers even installed.  Been a while since I've done any programming at all and I just don't bother to keep the stuff around.  So I'd have to download it all first.  Too much trouble when cvs builds are already built and made available.

If it's a build problem, then those builds need to get fixed.  That'd help everybody, not just me.

But with two different build sources having the same problems, I doubt it's a build problem.


I didn't try Win98se or WinME, or even XP.

This version is behaving enough like the ones from FreeOSZoo that I see no reason to.

It's pretty clear that the Windows builds are significantly broken.  Or else qemu just flat out doesn't like anything but Linux guests.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Laurent Amon]

On 26 févr. 05, at 07:49, <jeebs@yango.us> wrote:

> It's pretty clear that the Windows builds are significantly broken.  
> Or else qemu just flat out doesn't like anything but Linux guests.
>

Considering that there is (mostly) no problem installing/running 
Windows guest on other OS/processors, I would think that the problem 
might be specific to Windows on Windows.

Lga.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Jim C. Brown]

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 12:49:36AM -0600, jeebs@yango.us wrote:
> 
> > As a last resort, perhaps try to build the latest CVS source using the 
> > following instructions:
> 
> I'd rather not build my own.  I don't have any compilers even installed.  Been a while since I've done any programming at all and I just don't bother to keep the stuff around.  So I'd have to download it all first.  Too much trouble when cvs builds are already built and made available.
> 
> If it's a build problem, then those builds need to get fixed.  That'd help everybody, not just me.
> 
> But with two different build sources having the same problems, I doubt it's a build problem.
> 

I have to agree here. The one major windows developer who I have spoken to keeps
his own qemu source tree, independent of the CVS. (I don't think his tree is
an option for you to test out however, as it is in source only and I believe
you'd need a copy of Visual Studio to compile it.)

Evidently, we don't have enough qemu-win32 users or developers, if it takes us
this long to hear that the build is broken. :/

I do know of a few others who use qemu on windows host, but they all compile
from source and they only run linux guests. (I am curious why someone would
want to run Windows inside of Windows. Are you being a very thorough beta tester
(which we need), or do you actually have use of such a configuration?)

> 
> It's pretty clear that the Windows builds are significantly broken.  Or else qemu just flat out doesn't like anything but Linux guests.

On a linux host, windows 2000, windows 98se, freedos, and
msdos 6.22 all work fine, so this is most likely a windows-host specific
problem.

Just curious, have you tried running a Linux guest on these builds? If so, what
was the result?

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

From: "Jim C. Brown" <jma5@umd.edu>
 
> Evidently, we don't have enough qemu-win32 users or developers, if it takes us
> this long to hear that the build is broken. :/

That has crossed my mind, too...

However, it's still possible that:

1) It's a relatively recent break in the cvs windows builds.

2) Most of the windows users are trying to run Linux, rather than Windows.  (I haven't tried linux on qemu lately.)

3) Maybe I'm using some run option they aren't.  Or I'm not using one that they are.  (Although admittedly I've kept my options pretty simple.  localtime, dummy-net, and a few times the audio option.... So there aren't many for me to remove.)


>From what I've heard recently, the cdrom change problem has been around a long time and is fairly well known and hasn't been fixed.

It's possible the rest of the problems is more during the installation, and that already installed images work okay.  Meaning qemu might be working okay on the disk images they already have, and they haven't bothered to try and install it because the don't need to.


> from source and they only run linux guests. (I am curious why someone would
> want to run Windows inside of Windows. Are you being a very thorough beta tester
> (which we need), or do you actually have use of such a configuration?)

I was beta testing, yes.  (I'm also currently a beta tester of VMWare 5.  Although I gotta admit I did more testing back when it was beta and rc1 than I have now with rc2.)  That's why I've tried several versions of dos and windows etc.

But I was also going to keep Win98 and use it.

Yes, I do like to run the occasional Windows in Windows.  As a way to safely test programs, or run a different version, or experiment with various ideas etc. without having to make changes to my existing setup.  And a few other reasons occasionally.

To me, there are plenty of reasons to occasionally use another copy of Windows.

 
> Just curious, have you tried running a Linux guest on these builds? If so, what
> was the result?

Not lately.

In fact, this has been my first usage of qemu in months.

I've got linux installed under vmware, but I haven't bothered to do that with qemu.

At the time I was actually going to try to use a clean copy of Win98, and that has taken a lot longer than I thought. [grimace]

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[Elefterios Stamatogiannakis]

> I do know of a few others who use qemu on windows host, but they all compile
> from source and they only run linux guests. (I am curious why someone would
> want to run Windows inside of Windows. Are you being a very thorough beta tester
> (which we need), or do you actually have use of such a configuration?)

  I regularly test cvs versions of qemu using a windows on windows 
configuration. There are problems with qemu on a windows host (and i 
have fully reported them sometime before).
  The windows on windows is usefull to me because i'm trying to keep 
updated a (drive)image i have. Unfortunately qemu is not up to the task.

> Just curious, have you tried running a Linux guest on these builds? If so, what
> was the result?

  I also regularly test cvs versions of qemu with a variety of linux 
livecds on windows host. Qemu works like a champ with linux quests.
  Linux is simply more robust.
  For example on booting, linux reports that something funny is 
happening with the timekeeping and picks some other way for getting the 
time. From there it happily goes on.
  Windows 2000 as a guest just quits trying. For example windowsupdate 
doesn't work complaining that the time is not correct. SSL doesn't work 
at all (that is the real problem of windowsupdate, i think).

  I guess i should find the time someday and fix the problems (probably 
a gettime call in the windows codepath is incorrect).

Re: [Qemu-devel] Experiences installing Win98 on WinXP host.

[jeebs]

From: "Elefterios Stamatogiannakis"

>  I regularly test cvs versions of qemu using a windows on windows 
> configuration. There are problems with qemu on a windows host (and i 
> have fully reported them sometime before).

It's nice to know that the problems I've had aren't my imagination.