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[109.43.179.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m6-20020ae9e006000000b0078efdcd9aa6sm11295972qkk.127.2024.04.30.03.29.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Apr 2024 03:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <05cab8d3-bda0-4452-92d7-061f4719eba7@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:29:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs/about: Automatically deprecate versioned machine types older than 6 years To: =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Peter Maydell , devel@lists.libvirt.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Alex_Benn=C3=A9e?= , Laurent Vivier , qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, qemu-arm@nongnu.org, qemu-ppc@nongnu.org, Peter Xu , Fabiano Rosas References: <20240430064529.411699-1-thuth@redhat.com> From: Thomas Huth Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=thuth@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFH7eUwBEACzyOXKU+5Pcs6wNpKzrlJwzRl3VGZt95VCdb+FgoU9g11m7FWcOafrVRwU yYkTm9+7zBUc0sW5AuPGR/dp3pSLX/yFWsA/UB4nJsHqgDvDU7BImSeiTrnpMOTXb7Arw2a2 4CflIyFqjCpfDM4MuTmzTjXq4Uov1giGE9X6viNo1pxyEpd7PanlKNnf4PqEQp06X4IgUacW tSGj6Gcns1bCuHV8OPWLkf4hkRnu8hdL6i60Yxz4E6TqlrpxsfYwLXgEeswPHOA6Mn4Cso9O 0lewVYfFfsmokfAVMKWzOl1Sr0KGI5T9CpmRfAiSHpthhHWnECcJFwl72NTi6kUcUzG4se81 O6n9d/kTj7pzTmBdfwuOZ0YUSqcqs0W+l1NcASSYZQaDoD3/SLk+nqVeCBB4OnYOGhgmIHNW 0CwMRO/GK+20alxzk//V9GmIM2ACElbfF8+Uug3pqiHkVnKqM7W9/S1NH2qmxB6zMiJUHlTH gnVeZX0dgH27mzstcF786uPcdEqS0KJuxh2kk5IvUSL3Qn3ZgmgdxBMyCPciD/1cb7/Ahazr 3ThHQXSHXkH/aDXdfLsKVuwDzHLVSkdSnZdt5HHh75/NFHxwaTlydgfHmFFwodK8y/TjyiGZ zg2Kje38xnz8zKn9iesFBCcONXS7txENTzX0z80WKBhK+XSFJwARAQABzR5UaG9tYXMgSHV0 aCA8dGh1dGhAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwXgEEwECACIFAlVgX6oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEC7Z13T+cC21EbIP/ii9cvT2HHGbFRl8HqGT6+7Wkb+XLMqJBMAIGiQK QIP3xk1HPTsLfVG0ao4hy/oYkGNOP8+ubLnZen6Yq3zAFiMhQ44lvgigDYJo3Ve59gfe99KX EbtB+X95ODARkq0McR6OAsPNJ7gpEUzfkQUUJTXRDQXfG/FX303Gvk+YU0spm2tsIKPl6AmV 1CegDljzjycyfJbk418MQmMu2T82kjrkEofUO2a24ed3VGC0/Uz//XCR2ZTo+vBoBUQl41BD eFFtoCSrzo3yPFS+w5fkH9NT8ChdpSlbNS32NhYQhJtr9zjWyFRf0Zk+T/1P7ECn6gTEkp5k ofFIA4MFBc/fXbaDRtBmPB0N9pqTFApIUI4vuFPPO0JDrII9dLwZ6lO9EKiwuVlvr1wwzsgq zJTPBU3qHaUO4d/8G+gD7AL/6T4zi8Jo/GmjBsnYaTzbm94lf0CjXjsOX3seMhaE6WAZOQQG tZHAO1kAPWpaxne+wtgMKthyPLNwelLf+xzGvrIKvLX6QuLoWMnWldu22z2ICVnLQChlR9d6 WW8QFEpo/FK7omuS8KvvopFcOOdlbFMM8Y/8vBgVMSsK6fsYUhruny/PahprPbYGiNIhKqz7 UvgyZVl4pBFjTaz/SbimTk210vIlkDyy1WuS8Zsn0htv4+jQPgo9rqFE4mipJjy/iboDzsFN BFH7eUwBEAC2nzfUeeI8dv0C4qrfCPze6NkryUflEut9WwHhfXCLjtvCjnoGqFelH/PE9NF4 4VPSCdvD1SSmFVzu6T9qWdcwMSaC+e7G/z0/AhBfqTeosAF5XvKQlAb9ZPkdDr7YN0a1XDfa +NgA+JZB4ROyBZFFAwNHT+HCnyzy0v9Sh3BgJJwfpXHH2l3LfncvV8rgFv0bvdr70U+On2XH 5bApOyW1WpIG5KPJlDdzcQTyptOJ1dnEHfwnABEfzI3dNf63rlxsGouX/NFRRRNqkdClQR3K gCwciaXfZ7ir7fF0u1N2UuLsWA8Ei1JrNypk+MRxhbvdQC4tyZCZ8mVDk+QOK6pyK2f4rMf/ WmqxNTtAVmNuZIwnJdjRMMSs4W4w6N/bRvpqtykSqx7VXcgqtv6eqoDZrNuhGbekQA0sAnCJ VPArerAZGArm63o39me/bRUQeQVSxEBmg66yshF9HkcUPGVeC4B0TPwz+HFcVhheo6hoJjLq knFOPLRj+0h+ZL+D0GenyqD3CyuyeTT5dGcNU9qT74bdSr20k/CklvI7S9yoQje8BeQAHtdV cvO8XCLrpGuw9SgOS7OP5oI26a0548M4KldAY+kqX6XVphEw3/6U1KTf7WxW5zYLTtadjISB X9xsRWSU+Yqs3C7oN5TIPSoj9tXMoxZkCIHWvnqGwZ7JhwARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJR+3lM AhsMAAoJEC7Z13T+cC21hPAQAIsBL9MdGpdEpvXs9CYrBkd6tS9mbaSWj6XBDfA1AEdQkBOn ZH1Qt7HJesk+qNSnLv6+jP4VwqK5AFMrKJ6IjE7jqgzGxtcZnvSjeDGPF1h2CKZQPpTw890k fy18AvgFHkVk2Oylyexw3aOBsXg6ukN44vIFqPoc+YSU0+0QIdYJp/XFsgWxnFIMYwDpxSHS 5fdDxUjsk3UBHZx+IhFjs2siVZi5wnHIqM7eK9abr2cK2weInTBwXwqVWjsXZ4tq5+jQrwDK cvxIcwXdUTLGxc4/Z/VRH1PZSvfQxdxMGmNTGaXVNfdFZjm4fz0mz+OUi6AHC4CZpwnsliGV ODqwX8Y1zic9viSTbKS01ZNp175POyWViUk9qisPZB7ypfSIVSEULrL347qY/hm9ahhqmn17 Ng255syASv3ehvX7iwWDfzXbA0/TVaqwa1YIkec+/8miicV0zMP9siRcYQkyTqSzaTFBBmqD oiT+z+/E59qj/EKfyce3sbC9XLjXv3mHMrq1tKX4G7IJGnS989E/fg6crv6NHae9Ckm7+lSs IQu4bBP2GxiRQ+NV3iV/KU3ebMRzqIC//DCOxzQNFNJAKldPe/bKZMCxEqtVoRkuJtNdp/5a yXFZ6TfE1hGKrDBYAm4vrnZ4CXFSBDllL59cFFOJCkn4Xboj/aVxxJxF30bn In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.129.124; envelope-from=thuth@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.987, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 30/04/2024 11.55, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 08:45:29AM +0200, Thomas Huth wrote: >> Old machine types often have bugs or work-arounds that affect our >> possibilities to move forward with the QEMU code base (see for example >> https://gitlab.com/qemu-project/qemu/-/issues/2213 for a bug that likely >> cannot be fixed without breaking live migration with old machine types, >> or https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2018-12/msg04516.html or >> commit ea985d235b86). So instead of going through the process of manually >> deprecating old machine types again and again, let's rather add an entry >> that can stay, which declares that machine types older than 6 years are >> considered as deprecated automatically. Six years should be sufficient to >> support the release cycles of most Linux distributions. > > Reading this again, I think we're mixing two concepts here. > > With this 6 year cut off, we're declaring the actual *removal* date, > not the deprecation date. > > A deprecation is something that happens prior to removal normally, > to give people a warning of /future/ removal, as a suggestion > that they stop using it. > > If we never set the 'deprecation_reason' on a machine type, then > unless someone reads this doc, they'll never realize they are on > a deprecated machine. > > When it comes to machine types, I see deprecation as a way to tell > people they should not deploy a /new/ VM on a machine type, only > use it for back compat (incoming migration / restore from saved > image) with existing deployed VMs. > > If we delete a machine on the 6 year anniversary, then users > don't want to be deploying /new/ VMs using that on the > 5 year anniversary as it only gives a 1 year upgrade window. > > So how long far back do we consider it reasonable for a user > to deploy a /new/ VM on an old machine type ? 1 year, 2 years, > 3 years ? > > > How about picking the half way point ? 3 years ? > > ie, set deprecation_reason for any machine that is 3 years > old, but declare that our deprecation cycle lasts for > 3 years, instead of the normal 1 year, when applied to > machine types. > > This would give a strong hint that users should get off the > old machine type, several years before its finally deleted. Sounds like a good idea, too! Since I have to drop this patch here anyway, could you maybe write such a new patch? (or do you want me to try to formulate this?) Thomas