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(p200300cbc72fe500e96a804312118e6a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c72f:e500:e96a:8043:1211:8e6a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-381c116bb6asm14213155f8f.110.2024.11.04.13.36.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Nov 2024 13:36:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <09701693-436c-4e1a-8206-03eb26cacab5@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2024 22:36:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH V3 01/16] machine: anon-alloc option To: Steven Sistare , qemu-devel@nongnu.org Cc: Peter Xu , Fabiano Rosas , Marcel Apfelbaum , Eduardo Habkost , Philippe Mathieu-Daude , Paolo Bonzini , "Daniel P. Berrange" , Markus Armbruster References: <1730468875-249970-1-git-send-email-steven.sistare@oracle.com> <1730468875-249970-2-git-send-email-steven.sistare@oracle.com> <78fa25f1-03dc-400c-a604-998c53e4fbce@redhat.com> <45ea8a8a-928d-4703-b698-d5f910e6a224@oracle.com> <1f1a2742-0429-47d5-958f-b37575c1e4ba@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.129.124; envelope-from=david@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.34, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 04.11.24 21:56, Steven Sistare wrote: > On 11/4/2024 3:15 PM, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 04.11.24 20:51, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> On 04.11.24 18:38, Steven Sistare wrote: >>>> On 11/4/2024 5:39 AM, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>>> On 01.11.24 14:47, Steve Sistare wrote: >>>>>> Allocate anonymous memory using mmap MAP_ANON or memfd_create depending >>>>>> on the value of the anon-alloc machine property.  This option applies to >>>>>> memory allocated as a side effect of creating various devices. It does >>>>>> not apply to memory-backend-objects, whether explicitly specified on >>>>>> the command line, or implicitly created by the -m command line option. >>>>>> >>>>>> The memfd option is intended to support new migration modes, in which the >>>>>> memory region can be transferred in place to a new QEMU process, by sending >>>>>> the memfd file descriptor to the process.  Memory contents are preserved, >>>>>> and if the mode also transfers device descriptors, then pages that are >>>>>> locked in memory for DMA remain locked.  This behavior is a pre-requisite >>>>>> for supporting vfio, vdpa, and iommufd devices with the new modes. >>>>> >>>>> A more portable, non-Linux specific variant of this will be using shm, >>>>> similar to backends/hostmem-shm.c. >>>>> >>>>> Likely we should be using that instead of memfd, or try hiding the >>>>> details. See below. >>>> >>>> For this series I would prefer to use memfd and hide the details.  It's a >>>> concise (and well tested) solution albeit linux only.  The code you supply >>>> for posix shm would be a good follow on patch to support other unices. >>> >>> Unless there is reason to use memfd we should start with the more >>> generic POSIX variant that is available even on systems without memfd. >>> Factoring stuff out as I drafted does look quite compelling. >>> >>> I can help with the rework, and send it out separately, so you can focus >>> on the "machine toggle" as part of this series. >>> >>> Of course, if we find out we need the memfd internally instead under >>> Linux for whatever reason later, we can use that instead. >>> >>> But IIUC, the main selling point for memfd are additional features >>> (hugetlb, memory sealing) that you aren't even using. >> >> FWIW, I'm looking into some details, and one difference is that shmem_open() under Linux (glibc) seems to go to /dev/shmem and memfd/SYSV go to the internal tmpfs mount. There is not a big difference, but there can be some difference (e.g., sizing of the /dev/shm mount). > > Sizing is a non-trivial difference. One can by default allocate all memory using memfd_create. > To do so using shm_open requires configuration on the mount. One step harder to use. Yes. > > This is a real issue for memory-backend-ram, and becomes an issue for the internal RAM > if memory-backend-ram has hogged all the memory. > >> Regarding memory-backend-ram,share=on, I assume we can use memfd if available, but then fallback to shm_open(). > > Yes, and if that is a good idea, then the same should be done for internal RAM > -- memfd if available and fallback to shm_open. Yes. > >> I'm hoping we can find a way where it just all is rather intuitive, like >> >> "default-ram-share=on": behave for internal RAM just like "memory-backend-ram,share=on" >> >> "memory-backend-ram,share=on": use whatever mechanism we have to give us "anonymous" memory that can be shared using an fd with another process. >> >> Thoughts? > > Agreed, though I thought I had already landed at the intuitive specification in my patch. > The user must explicitly configure memory-backend-* to be usable with CPR, and anon-alloc > controls everything else. Now we're just riffing on the details: memfd vs shm_open, spelling > of options and words to describe them. Well, yes, and making it all a bit more consistent and the "machine option" behave just like "memory-backend-ram,share=on". -- Cheers, David / dhildenb