* [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized @ 2005-05-14 17:20 Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-14 18:15 ` J. Mayer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-14 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 901 bytes --] Hi, I have been playing with ppc-darwin-user. And I have to say that qemu- ppc is too strict with ppc opcode validity: On Mac OS X binary release called Tiger (or 10.4), the __bzero function [1] contains a mtcrf, which has been translated to 0x7c901120, by Apple's as. Current qemu rejects it, saying it is invalid. According to the IBM Specification the mtcrf instruction [2], contains reserved flags, for which the values are unknown. qemu assumes that those are set to 1, which is obviously wrong. The attached patch provides a fix. The mtcrf case might not be the only case in which such a situation occurs. That would need a special attention, though being strict is better than letting pass. Pierre. [1] http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/osfmk/ppc/commpage/bzero_32.s? v=DARWIN8#L98 [2] http://publibn.boulder.ibm.com/doc_link/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixassem/ alangref/mtcrf.htm [-- Attachment #2: qemu_mtcrf.diff.txt --] [-- Type: text/plain, Size: 562 bytes --] Index: target-ppc/translate.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v retrieving revision 1.31 diff -u -r1.31 translate.c --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ } /* mtcrf */ -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000000, PPC_MISC) { gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-14 17:20 [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-14 18:15 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-14 19:03 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: J. Mayer @ 2005-05-14 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 19:20 +0200, Pierre d'Herbemont wrote: > Hi, > > I have been playing with ppc-darwin-user. And I have to say that qemu- > ppc is too strict with ppc opcode validity: > On Mac OS X binary release called Tiger (or 10.4), the __bzero > function [1] contains a mtcrf, which has been translated to > 0x7c901120, by Apple's as. Current qemu rejects it, saying it is > invalid. According to the IBM Specification the mtcrf instruction > [2], contains reserved flags, for which the values are unknown. qemu > assumes that those are set to 1, which is obviously wrong. The > attached patch provides a fix. Qemu assume all reserved fields are set to zero, not 1. PowerPC specifications says: (section 8.1 of PEM) "Some instructions fields are reserved or must contain a predefined value as shown in the individual instruction layouts. If a reserved field does not have all bits cleared, or if a field that must contain a particular value does not contains that value, the instruction form is invalid ..." In section 4.1.3.2: "Invalid forms result when a bit or openrands is coded incorrectly, for example, or when a reserved bit (shown as '0') is coded as '1'. and "an attempt to execute an invalid form of an instruction either invokes the illegal instruction error handler (or program exception) or yields boundedly-undefined results. In the case of mtcrf, the PowerPC specification says the bits 11, 21 and 31 (IBM notation) _must_ be zero. This is what is described in 32 bits PEM as well as 64 bits PEM (including the latest revision dated on 31/03/2005) and the 740/750 PowerPC user manual (which is the one currently emulated by Qemu). It would be acceptable to relax the check if it would make MacOS X 10.4 boot. But in this case, only the bit 11 (which causes the problem here) should be relaxed. Then, the bit mask becomes 0x00000801 (not 0x00000000). > [2] http://publibn.boulder.ibm.com/doc_link/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixassem/alangref/mtcrf.htm This is the language reference for POWER & PowerPC. Some forms described in this documentation are valid only for POWER CPUs. Please use PowerPC Environment Manual for PowerPC only specifications. -- J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> Never organized ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-14 18:15 ` J. Mayer @ 2005-05-14 19:03 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-15 12:00 ` J. Mayer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-14 19:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On 14 mai 05, at 20:15, J. Mayer wrote: > Qemu assume all reserved fields are set to zero, not 1. > PowerPC specifications says: (section 8.1 of PEM) > "Some instructions fields are reserved or must contain a predefined > value as shown in the individual instruction layouts. If a reserved > field does not have all bits cleared, or if a field that must > contain a > particular value does not contains that value, the instruction form is > invalid ..." > In section 4.1.3.2: > "Invalid forms result when a bit or openrands is coded incorrectly, > for > example, or when a reserved bit (shown as '0') is coded as '1'. > and > "an attempt to execute an invalid form of an instruction either > invokes > the illegal instruction error handler (or program exception) or yields > boundedly-undefined results. > > In the case of mtcrf, the PowerPC specification says the bits 11, > 21 and > 31 (IBM notation) _must_ be zero. > This is what is described in 32 bits PEM as well as 64 bits PEM > (including the latest revision dated on 31/03/2005) and the 740/750 > PowerPC user manual (which is the one currently emulated by Qemu). > > It would be acceptable to relax the check if it would make MacOS X > 10.4 > boot. > But in this case, only the bit 11 (which causes the problem here) > should > be relaxed. > Then, the bit mask becomes 0x00000801 (not 0x00000000). > http://publibn.boulder.ibm.com/doc_link/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixassem/ > alangref/mtcrf.htm > > This is the language reference for POWER & PowerPC. > Some forms described in this documentation are valid only for POWER > CPUs. > Please use PowerPC Environment Manual for PowerPC only specifications. > In fact I was referring to my old PowerPC Spec book in french from IBM (titled Architecture PowerPC), this link was the first google returned. After looking again in my book, I found what you said. I am confused, I wrote this a bit quickly. But the fact remains, would you send a correct patch for that? It'll definitely be compulsory in order to boot Mac OS X 10.4, and for darwin-user. Thanks, Pierre. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-14 19:03 ` Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-15 12:00 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-16 7:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt [not found] ` <da63183705051610384e40c3de@mail.gmail.com> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: J. Mayer @ 2005-05-15 12:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 21:03 +0200, Pierre d'Herbemont wrote: > On 14 mai 05, at 20:15, J. Mayer wrote: > > > Qemu assume all reserved fields are set to zero, not 1. > > > PowerPC specifications says: (section 8.1 of PEM) [...] > > In the case of mtcrf, the PowerPC specification says the bits 11, > > 21 and > > 31 (IBM notation) _must_ be zero. > > This is what is described in 32 bits PEM as well as 64 bits PEM > > (including the latest revision dated on 31/03/2005) and the 740/750 > > PowerPC user manual (which is the one currently emulated by Qemu). > > > > It would be acceptable to relax the check if it would make MacOS X > > 10.4 boot. > > But in this case, only the bit 11 (which causes the problem here) > > should > > be relaxed. > > Then, the bit mask becomes 0x00000801 (not 0x00000000). > [...] > In fact I was referring to my old PowerPC Spec book in french from > IBM (titled Architecture PowerPC), this link was the first google > returned. After looking again in my book, I found what you said. I am > confused, I wrote this a bit quickly. But the fact remains, would you > send a correct patch for that? It'll definitely be compulsory in > order to boot Mac OS X 10.4, and for darwin-user. OK, I did put this in my working repository and I'll submit this to Fabrice. Please try to do this change to check if other bits need to be relax or not: Index: target-ppc/translate.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v retrieving revision 1.31 diff -u -r1.31 translate.c --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ } /* mtcrf */ -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000801, PPC_MISC) { gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); And maybe someone should fill an Apple bug report to tell them their as is buggy ;-) -- J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> Never organized ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-15 12:00 ` J. Mayer @ 2005-05-16 7:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt 2005-05-17 20:17 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-17 21:10 ` J. Mayer [not found] ` <da63183705051610384e40c3de@mail.gmail.com> 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt @ 2005-05-16 7:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel > OK, I did put this in my working repository and I'll submit this to > Fabrice. > Please try to do this change to check if other bits need to be relax or > not: > > Index: target-ppc/translate.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v > retrieving revision 1.31 > diff -u -r1.31 translate.c > --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 > +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 > @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ > } > > /* mtcrf */ > -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) > +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000801, PPC_MISC) > { > gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); > gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); > > And maybe someone should fill an Apple bug report to tell them their as > is buggy ;-) It is definitely a bug in Apple assembler I would say, so I suggest you add a comment in the above patch in order to avoid somebody later on "fixing" your mask :) Ben. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-16 7:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt @ 2005-05-17 20:17 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-17 21:10 ` J. Mayer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-17 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On 16 mai 05, at 09:54, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote: > >> OK, I did put this in my working repository and I'll submit this to >> Fabrice. >> Please try to do this change to check if other bits need to be relax >> or >> not: >> >> Index: target-ppc/translate.c >> =================================================================== >> RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v >> retrieving revision 1.31 >> diff -u -r1.31 translate.c >> --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 >> +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 >> @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ >> } >> >> /* mtcrf */ >> -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) >> +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000801, PPC_MISC) >> { >> gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); >> gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); >> I've tested it: it works fine as expected. >> And maybe someone should fill an Apple bug report to tell them their >> as >> is buggy ;-) > > It is definitely a bug in Apple assembler I would say, so I suggest you > add a comment in the above patch in order to avoid somebody later on > "fixing" your mask :) I thought it was, but it seems to be not so buggy ;) I have had a look at the Apple's as source code of Darwin 8.0 (10.4) [1] and I have found an interesting comment : /* * If this is the mtcrf opcode (0x7c000120) and val is not zero and * has exactly one bit set then use the new form of the mtcrf * opcode. This has bit 0x00100000 set and the FXM field is a bit * mask. Else use the old form without bit 0x00100000 set. */ I don't know what they are refering to, but that may have been introduced by the PowerPC 970 or an other new PPC, since it was not present on the Mac OS X 10.2's as [2]. Pierre. [1] http://darwinsource.opendarwin.org/10.4/cctools-576/as/ppc.c [2] http://darwinsource.opendarwin.org/10.2/cctools-435/as/ppc.c ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-16 7:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt 2005-05-17 20:17 ` Pierre d'Herbemont @ 2005-05-17 21:10 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-18 9:06 ` Herbert Poetzl 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: J. Mayer @ 2005-05-17 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 17:54 +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote: > > OK, I did put this in my working repository and I'll submit this to > > Fabrice. > > Please try to do this change to check if other bits need to be relax or > > not: > > > > Index: target-ppc/translate.c > > =================================================================== > > RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v > > retrieving revision 1.31 > > diff -u -r1.31 translate.c > > --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 > > +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 > > @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ > > } > > > > /* mtcrf */ > > -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) > > +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000801, PPC_MISC) > > { > > gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); > > gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); > > > > And maybe someone should fill an Apple bug report to tell them their as > > is buggy ;-) > > It is definitely a bug in Apple assembler I would say, so I suggest you > add a comment in the above patch in order to avoid somebody later on > "fixing" your mask :) Piotr Krysiuk pointed that it's, in fact, a new form of the instruction. A new PowerPC specification has been released in january, adding mtocrf and mfocrf ('o' like optimized). Those new forms only transfer one set of flags (then it's like the previous form when only one bit is set in the control register). The specification also say that "old" form is supported as a micro-coded instruction. Then, I guess new PowerPC do implement this new instruction. But Apple is then supposed to emulate it when running on a PowerPC that does not support it, I guess. I will implement the new form, so it most crf transfers can be optimized. The latest PowerPC specification is to be found here: <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book1_public.pdf> <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book2_public.pdf> <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book3_public.pdf> -- J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> Never organized ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-17 21:10 ` J. Mayer @ 2005-05-18 9:06 ` Herbert Poetzl 2005-05-18 10:28 ` J. Mayer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Herbert Poetzl @ 2005-05-18 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: J. Mayer; +Cc: qemu-devel On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:10:52PM +0200, J. Mayer wrote: > > I will implement the new form, so it most crf transfers can be > optimized. > > The latest PowerPC specification is to be found here: > <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book1_public.pdf> > <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book2_public.pdf> > <http://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book3_public.pdf> you sure about that? best, Herbert > -- > J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> > Never organized > > > > _______________________________________________ > Qemu-devel mailing list > Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized 2005-05-18 9:06 ` Herbert Poetzl @ 2005-05-18 10:28 ` J. Mayer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: J. Mayer @ 2005-05-18 10:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Herbert Poetzl; +Cc: qemu-devel On Wed, 2005-05-18 at 11:06 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:10:52PM +0200, J. Mayer wrote: > > > > I will implement the new form, so it most crf transfers can be > > optimized. > > > > The latest PowerPC specification is to be found here: [...] > you sure about that? No, sorry: Here are the right links: <ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book1_public.pdf> <ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book2_public.pdf> <ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/PPC_Vers202_Book3_public.pdf> -- J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> Never organized ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <da63183705051610384e40c3de@mail.gmail.com>]
[parent not found: <da631837050516110638c65163@mail.gmail.com>]
* Re: [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized [not found] ` <da631837050516110638c65163@mail.gmail.com> @ 2005-05-16 21:14 ` J. Mayer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: J. Mayer @ 2005-05-16 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Piotras; +Cc: qemu-devel On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 19:06 +0100, Piotras wrote: > You may also want to take a look at mtocrf (with "o" for "one") in the document: > ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/library/es-ppcbook1.zip > All right, there is a new (optional) form of this instruction. However, what is currently done in Qemu is perfectly valid: "On some processor that comply with versions of the architecture that precede Version 2.00 the new form may be treated as follows: mtocrf: may cause the system illegal instruction error handler to be invoked mfocrf: may copy the content of an SPR, possibly a priviledged SPR, into register RT" As I doubt Apple want its OS not to run on G3 & G4, they must have handled those case in their kernel. Of course, for performance reasons, and to be able to emulate new PowerPCs, I will relax the check, but this check should not prevent Mac OS X to run. Regards. > On 5/16/05, Piotras <piotras@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I'm not sure if this is relevant, but please search for "new form of > > the mtcrf" on: > > http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2087.html > > http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.3.9/gas-573.1/as/ppc.c > > > > There are also some references to "POWER4 optimised mtcrf" (try google). > > > > Do not really have time to research this right now, > > > > Piotr Krysiuk > > > > On 5/15/05, J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> wrote: > > > On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 21:03 +0200, Pierre d'Herbemont wrote: > > > > On 14 mai 05, at 20:15, J. Mayer wrote: > > > > > > > > > Qemu assume all reserved fields are set to zero, not 1. > > > > > > > > > PowerPC specifications says: (section 8.1 of PEM) > > > [...] > > > > > In the case of mtcrf, the PowerPC specification says the bits 11, > > > > > 21 and > > > > > 31 (IBM notation) _must_ be zero. > > > > > This is what is described in 32 bits PEM as well as 64 bits PEM > > > > > (including the latest revision dated on 31/03/2005) and the 740/750 > > > > > PowerPC user manual (which is the one currently emulated by Qemu). > > > > > > > > > > It would be acceptable to relax the check if it would make MacOS X > > > > > 10.4 boot. > > > > > But in this case, only the bit 11 (which causes the problem here) > > > > > should > > > > > be relaxed. > > > > > Then, the bit mask becomes 0x00000801 (not 0x00000000). > > > > > > > [...] > > > > In fact I was referring to my old PowerPC Spec book in french from > > > > IBM (titled Architecture PowerPC), this link was the first google > > > > returned. After looking again in my book, I found what you said. I am > > > > confused, I wrote this a bit quickly. But the fact remains, would you > > > > send a correct patch for that? It'll definitely be compulsory in > > > > order to boot Mac OS X 10.4, and for darwin-user. > > > > > > OK, I did put this in my working repository and I'll submit this to > > > Fabrice. > > > Please try to do this change to check if other bits need to be relax or > > > not: > > > > > > Index: target-ppc/translate.c > > > =================================================================== > > > RCS file: /cvsroot/qemu/qemu/target-ppc/translate.c,v > > > retrieving revision 1.31 > > > diff -u -r1.31 translate.c > > > --- target-ppc/translate.c 12 May 2005 18:46:11 -0000 1.31 > > > +++ target-ppc/translate.c 14 May 2005 17:14:35 -0000 > > > @@ -2123,7 +2123,7 @@ > > > } > > > > > > /* mtcrf */ > > > -GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00100801, PPC_MISC) > > > +GEN_HANDLER(mtcrf, 0x1F, 0x10, 0x04, 0x00000801, PPC_MISC) > > > { > > > gen_op_load_gpr_T0(rS(ctx->opcode)); > > > gen_op_store_cr(CRM(ctx->opcode)); > > > > > > And maybe someone should fill an Apple bug report to tell them their as > > > is buggy ;-) > > > > > > -- > > > J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> > > > Never organized > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Qemu-devel mailing list > > > Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > > > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel > > > > > -- J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr> Never organized ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-05-18 10:30 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-05-14 17:20 [Qemu-devel] [Patch] target-ppc mtcrf instruction not recognized Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-14 18:15 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-14 19:03 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-15 12:00 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-16 7:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt 2005-05-17 20:17 ` Pierre d'Herbemont 2005-05-17 21:10 ` J. Mayer 2005-05-18 9:06 ` Herbert Poetzl 2005-05-18 10:28 ` J. Mayer [not found] ` <da63183705051610384e40c3de@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <da631837050516110638c65163@mail.gmail.com> 2005-05-16 21:14 ` J. Mayer
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