From: Hollis Blanchard <hollisb@us.ibm.com>
To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org
Cc: devicetree-discuss@ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:50:28 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1234378228.28751.79.camel@slate.austin.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87iqnh6kyv.fsf@pike.pond.sub.org>
On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 16:40 +0100, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> Sorry for the length of this memo. I tried to make it as concise as I
> could. And there's working mock-up source code to go with it.
>
>
> Configuration should be data
> ----------------------------
>
> A QEMU machine (selected with -M) is described by a struct QEMUMachine.
> Which contains almost nothing of interest. Pretty much everything,
> including all the buses and devices is instead created by the machine's
> initialization function.
>
> Init functions consider a plethora of ad hoc configuration parameters
> set by command line options. Plenty of stuff remains hard-coded all
> the same.
>
> Configuration should be data, not code.
>
> A machine's buses and devices can be expressed as a device tree. More
> on that below.
>
> The need for a configuration file
> ---------------------------------
>
> The command line is a rather odd place to define a virtual machine.
> Command line is fine for manipulating a particular run of the machine,
> but the machine description belongs into a configuration file.
>
> Once configuration is data, we should be able to initialize it from a
> configuration file with relative ease.
>
> However, this memo is only about the *internal* representation of
> configuration. How we get there from a configuration file is a separate
> question. It's without doubt a relevant question, but I feel I need to
> limit my scope to have a chance of getting anywhere.
>
> The need for an abstract device interface
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Currently, each virtual device is created, configured and initialized in
> its own idiosyncratic way. Some configuration is received as arguments,
> some is passed in global variables.
>
> This is workable as long as the machine is constructed by ad hoc init
> function code. The resulting init function tends to be quite a
> hairball, though.
>
> I'd like to propose an abstract device interface, so we can build a
> machine from its (tree-structured) configuration using just this
> interface. Device idiosyncrasies are to be hidden in the driver code
> behind the interface.
>
> What I propose to do
> --------------------
>
> A. Configuration as data
>
> Define an internal machine configuration data structure. Needs to be
> sufficiently generic to be able to support even oddball machine
> types. Make it a decorated tree, i.e. a tree of named nodes with
> named properties.
>
> Create an instance for a prototype machine type. Make it a PC,
> because that's the easiest to test.
>
> Define an abstract device interface, initially covering just device
> configuration and initialization.
>
> Implement the device interface for the devices used by the prototype
> machine type.
>
> Do not break existing machine types here. This means we need to keep
> legacy interfaces until their last user is gone (step B). Could
> become somewhat messy in places for a while.
>
> B. Convert all the existing machine configurations to data.
>
> This can and should be done incrementally, each machine by people who
> care and know about it.
>
> Clean up the legacy interfaces now unused, and any messes we made
> behind them.
>
> C. Read (and maybe write) machine configuration
>
> The external format to use is debatable. Compared to the rest of the
> task, its choice looks like detail to me, but I'm biased ;)
>
> Writing the data could be useful for debugging.
>
> D. Command line options to modify the configuration tree
>
> If we want them.
>
> E. Make legacy command line modify the configuration tree
>
> For compatibility. This is my "favourite" part.
>
> We need to start with A. The other tasks are largely independent.
>
> What I've already done
> ----------------------
>
> Show me the code, they say. Find attached a working prototype of step
> A. It passes the "Linux boots" test for me. I didn't bother to rebase
> to current HEAD, happy do to that on request.
>
> Instead of hacking up machine "pc", I created a new machine "pcdt". I
> took a number of shortcuts:
>
> * I put the "pcdt" code into the new file dt.c, and copied code from
> pc.c there. I could have avoided that by putting my code in pc.c
> instead. Putting it in a new file helped me pick apart the pc.c
> hairball. To be cleaned up.
>
> * I copied code from net.c. Trivial to fix, just give it external
> linkage there.
>
> * I hard-coded the configuration tree in the wrong place (tree.c), out of
> laziness.
>
> * I didn't implement all the devices of the "pc" original. The devices
> I implemented might not support all existing command line options.
>
> Notable qualities:
>
> * Device drivers are cleanly separated from each other, and from the
> device-agnostic configuration code.
>
> * Each driver specifies the configurable properties in a single place.
>
> * Device configuration is gotten from the configuration tree, which is
> fully checked. Unknown properties are rejected.
>
>
> Appendix: Linux device trees
> ----------------------------
>
> This appendix is probably only of interest to some of you, feel free to
> skip.
>
> The IEEE 1275 Open Firmware Device Tree solves a somewhat similar
> problem, namely to communicate environmental information (hardware and
> configuration) from firmware to operating system. It's chiefly used on
> PowerPCs. The OS calls Open Firmware to query the device tree.
>
> Linux turns the Open Firmware device tree API into a data format.
> Actually two: the DT blob format is a binary data structure, and the
> DT source format is human-readable text. The device tree compiler
> "dtc" can convert the two.
>
> We already have a bit of code dealing with this, in device_tree.c.
>
> I briefly examined the DT source format and the tree structure it
> describes for the purpose of QEMU configuration. I decided against
> using it in my prototype because I found it awfully low-level and
> verbose for that purpose (I'm sure it serves the purpose it was designed
> for just fine). Issues include:
>
> * Since the DT is designed for booting kernels, not configuring QEMU,
> there's information that has no place in QEMU configuration, and
> required QEMU configuration isn't there.
What's needed is a "binding" in IEEE1275-speak: a document that
describes qemu-specific nodes/properties and how they are to be
interpreted.
As an example, you could require that block devices contain properties
named "qemu,path", "qemu,backend", etc.
> * Redundancy between node name and its device_type property.
>
> * Property "reg", which encodes address ranges, does so in terms of
> "cells": #address-cells 32-bit words (big endian) for the address,
> followed by #size-cells words for the size, where #address-cells and
> #size-cells are properties of the enclosing bus. If this sounds
> like gibberish to you, well, that's my point.
I'm CCing devicetree-discuss for broader discussion.
I won't say IEEE1275 is perfect, but IMHO it would be pretty silly to
reinvent all the design and infrastructure for a similar-but-different
device tree.
[Patch snipped]
--
Hollis Blanchard
IBM Linux Technology Center
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-02-11 18:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-02-11 15:40 [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 16:31 ` Ian Jackson
2009-02-11 17:43 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 18:57 ` Hollis Blanchard
2009-02-12 3:50 ` David Gibson
2009-02-11 18:50 ` Hollis Blanchard [this message]
2009-02-11 19:34 ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-12 4:01 ` David Gibson
2009-02-12 10:26 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 12:49 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 16:46 ` M. Warner Losh
2009-02-12 18:29 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 23:58 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 11:19 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 1:05 ` David Gibson
2009-02-12 23:35 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 23:58 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 0:32 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 0:47 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-02-13 1:46 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 14:32 ` Lennart Sorensen
2009-02-13 0:05 ` M. Warner Losh
2009-02-12 17:52 ` Hollis Blanchard
2009-02-12 18:53 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 19:33 ` Mitch Bradley
2009-02-13 0:59 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 1:00 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 0:43 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 2:11 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 2:17 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 2:45 ` DTS syntax and DTC patches (was: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data) Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 2:51 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 20:04 ` [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data Jon Loeliger
2009-02-13 20:15 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 20:19 ` Jon Loeliger
2009-02-12 10:26 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 12:36 ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 16:07 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-12 17:17 ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-12 18:09 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2009-02-13 0:37 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 11:26 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 12:06 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 12:48 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 13:33 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 14:13 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 14:25 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 15:47 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-02-13 18:36 ` Mitch Bradley
2009-02-13 19:49 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 19:51 ` Mitch Bradley
2009-02-16 3:42 ` David Gibson
2009-02-16 16:39 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17 3:29 ` David Gibson
2009-02-17 7:54 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17 17:44 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-18 8:36 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 19:01 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-11 19:36 ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-11 19:56 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-12 10:25 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-16 16:22 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 2 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17 17:32 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-18 8:42 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 2 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 10:29 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 13:53 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-19 14:55 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 15:03 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-19 14:36 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-19 15:00 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 14:49 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-23 17:38 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 18:58 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-24 9:08 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 16:40 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Blue Swirl
2009-02-19 18:30 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-20 18:14 ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-20 18:20 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-23 12:00 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 12:18 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 18:00 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 4 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-24 20:06 ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-25 12:13 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 4 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-25 20:11 ` Blue Swirl
2009-03-03 17:46 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 5 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-03-12 18:43 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 6 " Markus Armbruster
2009-03-17 16:06 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 6 Paul Brook
2009-03-17 17:32 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-03-23 15:50 ` [Qemu-devel] Re: [RFC] Machine description as data Markus Armbruster
2009-03-23 15:53 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-03-31 9:16 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-04-17 16:04 ` Markus Armbruster
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