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Fri, 10 Oct 2025 06:49:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFjgls0VMN6gygbW87z1TgGJQHtnVGNl8gc+xpQsa1nAbnx5DiMVWeXGZMo5NSpmOqNE4HZgg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:40cd:b0:639:f9af:6b28 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-639f9af6f1amr7600175a12.7.1760104170582; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.81] ([151.49.231.162]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-63a5c32249esm2309432a12.41.2025.10.10.06.49.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Oct 2025 06:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12439b02-9273-41b3-85f3-c98e319194ec@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 15:49:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] tracetool: add mypy --strict checking [AI discussion ahead!] To: Markus Armbruster , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Alex_Benn=C3=A9e?= , John Snow , Kevin Wolf , Peter Maydell , Stefan Hajnoczi , Mads Ynddal References: <20251008063546.376603-1-pbonzini@redhat.com> <87ikgpn9oz.fsf@pond.sub.org> <87cy6vhqz2.fsf@pond.sub.org> From: Paolo Bonzini Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=pbonzini@redhat.com; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=pbonzini@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -24 X-Spam_score: -2.5 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.441, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 10/10/25 14:38, Markus Armbruster wrote: > The boundary between legal and illegal is a superposition of fuzzy, > squiggly lines, one per jurisdiction. > > We can only try to approximate it from the legal side. > The tighter we try to approximate, the more risk we take on. > > In addition, tighter approximations can be difficult to understand and > apply. I agree. > [Strong argument why type annotations are low risk snipped...] Note that type annotations are pretty much the upper bound of what I would consider a mechanical change. I would expect, for most cases, that "include the prompt in the commit message" and the boringness of the change are together already a satisfactory explanation. At the same time, I decided to try with a more complex change to 1) avoid a slippery slope; it's easier to do so if you look at the hard cases from the beginning, and Daniel did that very, very well; 2) probe the limitations of the tool and ascertain if it's even worthwhile having an exception. >> There's a definite "slippery slope" situation. The incentive for >> contributors will be to search out reasons to justify why a work >> matches the AI exception, > > „Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.“ Yes, and that's why we should strive for simplicity if we are to have exceptions. If you cannot convince me with the prompt that your change is mechanical/non-creative, don't even bother making complicated and probably wrong legal arguments. Paying a certain price upfront (i.e., now) is fine, but in the long term the maintainer's job wrt AI should be and remain easy. There has to be a cost, but then the same would be true with any policy other than "don't ask, don't tell"---including zero tolerance. Paolo