[Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Mario Cazorzi]

I have just installed Windows98 on my Linux machine (Suse 9.1 64bit, sata HD).
Qemu works really very, very good.
The only thing I missed is the possibility to exchange data between the two 
OS. (I mean cut and paste).
Probably at the moment the only possibility is to make a fat32 partition so I 
can see it from Linux and from Windows too.
Is that the only solution (if I can spare so a partition I will be very 
happy).

mcz 
-- 
Powered by SuSe-amd64 Gnu/Linux

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Mon July 12 2004 4:56 pm, Mario Cazorzi wrote:
> I have just installed Windows98 on my Linux machine (Suse 9.1 64bit, sata
> HD). Qemu works really very, very good.
> The only thing I missed is the possibility to exchange data between the two
> OS. (I mean cut and paste).
> Probably at the moment the only possibility is to make a fat32 partition so
> I can see it from Linux and from Windows too.
> Is that the only solution (if I can spare so a partition I will be very
> happy).
Actually you can't mount a partition in Qemu that's not buried inside 
your .img file. At least no way I found yet.
You can use lomount to mount your .img partitions in Linux, this requires root 
access tho.
http://www.dad-answers.com/qemu/utilities/QEMU-HD-Mounter/

Btw, thanks dad for the very useful site. :)

-jm

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 05:12:09PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> On Mon July 12 2004 4:56 pm, Mario Cazorzi wrote:
> > I have just installed Windows98 on my Linux machine (Suse 9.1 64bit, sata
> > HD). Qemu works really very, very good.
> > The only thing I missed is the possibility to exchange data between the two
> > OS. (I mean cut and paste).
> > Probably at the moment the only possibility is to make a fat32 partition so
> > I can see it from Linux and from Windows too.
> > Is that the only solution (if I can spare so a partition I will be very
> > happy).
> Actually you can't mount a partition in Qemu that's not buried inside 
> your .img file. At least no way I found yet.
> You can use lomount to mount your .img partitions in Linux, this requires root 
> access tho.
> http://www.dad-answers.com/qemu/utilities/QEMU-HD-Mounter/
> 
> Btw, thanks dad for the very useful site. :)
> 
> -jm
> 

This isn't safe though. It might work, but you run the risk of corrupting the
partition in question (e.g. Linux updates the spare partition at the same time
windows 98 writes its own data on it ... boom). Same problem if you could use
a real partition ... which you can't, unless you want to share an entire disk.

You're better off using Samba or FTP.

> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Mon July 12 2004 8:23 pm, Jim C. Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 05:12:09PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> > On Mon July 12 2004 4:56 pm, Mario Cazorzi wrote:
> > > I have just installed Windows98 on my Linux machine (Suse 9.1 64bit,
> > > sata HD). Qemu works really very, very good.
> > > The only thing I missed is the possibility to exchange data between the
> > > two OS. (I mean cut and paste).
> > > Probably at the moment the only possibility is to make a fat32
> > > partition so I can see it from Linux and from Windows too.
> > > Is that the only solution (if I can spare so a partition I will be very
> > > happy).
> >
> > Actually you can't mount a partition in Qemu that's not buried inside
> > your .img file. At least no way I found yet.
> > You can use lomount to mount your .img partitions in Linux, this requires
> > root access tho.
> > http://www.dad-answers.com/qemu/utilities/QEMU-HD-Mounter/
> >
> > Btw, thanks dad for the very useful site. :)
> >
> > -jm
>
> This isn't safe though. It might work, but you run the risk of corrupting
> the partition in question (e.g. Linux updates the spare partition at the
> same time windows 98 writes its own data on it ... boom). Same problem if
> you could use a real partition ... which you can't, unless you want to
> share an entire disk.
>
> You're better off using Samba or FTP.

I agree, I was suggesting using lomount only to move files onto the .img 
drive. Not running both in tandem. Sorry if I was unclear. And thank you for 
pointing this out.
As for Samba and FTP,... if I could figure out the whole /dev/tun thing, those 
would be my first choice. Stuck (for now) with -user-net, leaves lomount as 
my only option. :(

-jm

/dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 09:03:37PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> As for Samba and FTP,... if I could figure out the whole /dev/tun thing, those 
> would be my first choice. Stuck (for now) with -user-net, leaves lomount as 
> my only option. :(
> 
> -jm
> 

I recommend using VDE (vde.sourceforge.net) as it has its own HOWTO on how to
set it up and its easier to maintain.

If you decide to install VDE and need help, I will be willing to answer any question
you might have.

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Mon July 12 2004 9:51 pm, Jim C. Brown wrote:
> I recommend using VDE (vde.sourceforge.net) as it has its own HOWTO on how
> to set it up and its easier to maintain.
>
> If you decide to install VDE and need help, I will be willing to answer any
> question you might have.

 <added to todo list>
Thank you very much. I'll most likely be doing all of that. :)

-jm

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Mon July 12 2004 10:15 pm, Joe Menola wrote:
> On Mon July 12 2004 9:51 pm, Jim C. Brown wrote:
> > I recommend using VDE (vde.sourceforge.net) as it has its own HOWTO on
> > how to set it up and its easier to maintain.
> >
> > If you decide to install VDE and need help, I will be willing to answer
> > any question you might have.
>

I'm baaaaaaaaaack. :)

I started playing with vbe, I think I've made some progress but can't seem to 
get things working. It's possible that I'm in over my head.... I'll let you 
be the judge.
Here's where I'm at:

As root:
[root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ./vde_switch -tap tap0 -daemon
[root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ifconfig tap0 192.168.0.254
[root@joe vde-1.5.3]# chmod 777 /tmp/vde.ctl
[root@joe vde-1.5.3]# echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
[root@joe vde-1.5.3]#  iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE

I assume that at this point vde is set and ready.... or have I already fallen 
off the edge?

As user I start qemu with

[joe@joe qemu]$ vdeq qemu  -hda /mymnt/qemu/qdrive.img  -boot c -m 256 
-enable-audio -pci -cirrusvga

Monitor output

QEMU 0.5.5 monitor - type 'help' for more information
(qemu) qemu exited: vdeq quits
[joe@joe qemu]$

I'm somewhat confused about network settings for Win98, my "real" network 
consists of my linux host (eth0) connected to a dsl router (192.168.0.1). 
I tried dchp (my router supports it but it's not installed on my linux host), 
tried static ip's 192.168.0.254 (address assinged to tap0?) and 192.168.0.135 
(unused address on my lan) . As gateway's I have both my routers address and 
eth0's address on my Linux host. Same for dns.
No internet, and cannot ping anything.

Is there hope? lol

-jm

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:10:01PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> I'm baaaaaaaaaack. :)
> 
> I started playing with vbe, I think I've made some progress but can't seem to 
> get things working. It's possible that I'm in over my head.... I'll let you 
> be the judge.
> Here's where I'm at:
> 
> As root:
> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ./vde_switch -tap tap0 -daemon
> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ifconfig tap0 192.168.0.254
> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# chmod 777 /tmp/vde.ctl
> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]#  iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE
> 
> I assume that at this point vde is set and ready.... or have I already fallen 
> off the edge?
> 

The tap0 device should have its own subnet. E.g. below, it appears that your
LAN already uses the 192.168.0.* subnet. I'd recommend that you use this
ifconfig instead:

> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ifconfig tap0 192.168.254.254 netmask 255.255.255.0

I don't know iptables very well, but to the best of my knowledge that looks
correct. You can try adding this line as well, not sure if it will help or
not however:

> [root@joe vde-1.5.3]#  iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o tap0 -j MASQUERADE

(note to self: add iptables guru to vde team)

> As user I start qemu with
> 
> [joe@joe qemu]$ vdeq qemu  -hda /mymnt/qemu/qdrive.img  -boot c -m 256 
> -enable-audio -pci -cirrusvga
> 
> Monitor output
> 
> QEMU 0.5.5 monitor - type 'help' for more information
> (qemu) qemu exited: vdeq quits
> [joe@joe qemu]$
> 

That looks right, unless you are saying that qemu quits prematurely.

> I'm somewhat confused about network settings for Win98, my "real" network 
> consists of my linux host (eth0) connected to a dsl router (192.168.0.1). 
> I tried dchp (my router supports it but it's not installed on my linux host), 
> tried static ip's 192.168.0.254 (address assinged to tap0?) and 192.168.0.135 
> (unused address on my lan) . As gateway's I have both my routers address and 
> eth0's address on my Linux host. Same for dns.
> No internet, and cannot ping anything.
> 
> Is there hope? lol

DHCP from the router will not work. Assuming that you've made the above change
and are using the 192.168.254.* subnet, the router/gateway for Win98 is
192.168.254.254 and you can assign it any ip address you want in the subnet,
for example 192.168.254.135 should work. You can also do

/sbin/dhcpd tap0

after you set up vde and install a DHCPd server. That works great for me.
(I can give you my dhcpd.conf file if you decide to go this route.)

> 
> -jm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Wed July 14 2004 9:49 pm, Jim C. Brown wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:10:01PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> > I'm baaaaaaaaaack. :)
> >
> > I started playing with vbe, I think I've made some progress but can't
> > seem to get things working. It's possible that I'm in over my head....
> > I'll let you be the judge.
> > Here's where I'm at:
> >
> > As root:
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ./vde_switch -tap tap0 -daemon
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ifconfig tap0 192.168.0.254
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# chmod 777 /tmp/vde.ctl
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]#  iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j
> > MASQUERADE
> >
> > I assume that at this point vde is set and ready.... or have I already
> > fallen off the edge?
>
> The tap0 device should have its own subnet. E.g. below, it appears that
> your LAN already uses the 192.168.0.* subnet. I'd recommend that you use
> this
>
> ifconfig instead:
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]# ifconfig tap0 192.168.254.254 netmask 255.255.255.0

Done
>
> I don't know iptables very well, but to the best of my knowledge that looks
> correct. You can try adding this line as well, not sure if it will help or
>
> not however:
> > [root@joe vde-1.5.3]#  iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o tap0 -j
> > MASQUERADE

Tried both tap0 and eth0, also each seperately, no difference seen.

>
> (note to self: add iptables guru to vde team)
>
> > As user I start qemu with
> >
> > [joe@joe qemu]$ vdeq qemu  -hda /mymnt/qemu/qdrive.img  -boot c -m 256
> > -enable-audio -pci -cirrusvga
> >
> > Monitor output
> >
> > QEMU 0.5.5 monitor - type 'help' for more information
> > (qemu) qemu exited: vdeq quits
> > [joe@joe qemu]$
>
> That looks right, unless you are saying that qemu quits prematurely.

No, that was output from a completed and closed Qemu session.

> > I'm somewhat confused about network settings for Win98, my "real" network
> > consists of my linux host (eth0) connected to a dsl router (192.168.0.1).
> > I tried dchp (my router supports it but it's not installed on my linux
> > host), tried static ip's 192.168.0.254 (address assinged to tap0?) and
> > 192.168.0.135 (unused address on my lan) . As gateway's I have both my
> > routers address and eth0's address on my Linux host. Same for dns.
> > No internet, and cannot ping anything.
> >
> > Is there hope? lol
>
> DHCP from the router will not work. Assuming that you've made the above
> change and are using the 192.168.254.* subnet, the router/gateway for Win98
> is 192.168.254.254 and you can assign it any ip address you want in the
> subnet, for example 192.168.254.135 should work. You can also do
>
> /sbin/dhcpd tap0
>
> after you set up vde and install a DHCPd server. That works great for me.
> (I can give you my dhcpd.conf file if you decide to go this route.)

Please do. I've installed a DHCPd server, I doubt that I have dhcpd.conf setup 
properly. 

Thanks again for all your help. I've been keeping a log of my efforts, if I 
get this up and going I could easily put together a cut n paste trail of all 
my steps. You might be able to use it as a rough draft for your up coming 
"VBE For Dumbies" book?

-jm

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1539 bytes --]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 08:01:23PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> > DHCP from the router will not work. Assuming that you've made the above
> > change and are using the 192.168.254.* subnet, the router/gateway for Win98
> > is 192.168.254.254 and you can assign it any ip address you want in the
> > subnet, for example 192.168.254.135 should work. You can also do
> >
> > /sbin/dhcpd tap0
> >
> > after you set up vde and install a DHCPd server. That works great for me.
> > (I can give you my dhcpd.conf file if you decide to go this route.)
> 
> Please do. I've installed a DHCPd server, I doubt that I have dhcpd.conf setup 
> properly. 
> 

I attach a modified version here. I've changed the IPs to reflect your subnet
(mine is 192.168.1.*) and I've deleted the section I had that gave out fixed
ip addresses to certain mac addresses.

You'll have to edit the domain name options and the netbios name server
option yourself.

If this one gives a syntax error I'll send my original, unmodified dhcpd.conf
file.

> Thanks again for all your help. I've been keeping a log of my efforts, if I 
> get this up and going I could easily put together a cut n paste trail of all 
> my steps. You might be able to use it as a rough draft for your up coming 
> "VBE For Dumbies" book?
> 
> -jm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

[-- Attachment #2: dhcpd.conf --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 358 bytes --]

default-lease-time 600;
max-lease-time 7200;
option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
option broadcast-address 192.168.254.255;
option routers 192.168.254.254;
option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;
option domain-name "mylinuxbox.org";
option netbios-name-servers 192.168.0.1;

subnet 192.168.254.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
	range 192.168.254.10 192.168.254.20;
}

Re: /dev/tun Was: Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Joe Menola]

On Thu July 15 2004 8:39 pm, Jim C. Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 08:01:23PM -0500, Joe Menola wrote:
> > > DHCP from the router will not work. Assuming that you've made the above
> > > change and are using the 192.168.254.* subnet, the router/gateway for
> > > Win98 is 192.168.254.254 and you can assign it any ip address you want
> > > in the subnet, for example 192.168.254.135 should work. You can also do
> > >
> > > /sbin/dhcpd tap0
> > >
> > > after you set up vde and install a DHCPd server. That works great for
> > > me. (I can give you my dhcpd.conf file if you decide to go this route.)
> >
> > Please do. I've installed a DHCPd server, I doubt that I have dhcpd.conf
> > setup properly.
>
> I attach a modified version here. I've changed the IPs to reflect your
> subnet (mine is 192.168.1.*) and I've deleted the section I had that gave
> out fixed ip addresses to certain mac addresses.
>
> You'll have to edit the domain name options and the netbios name server
> option yourself.
>
> If this one gives a syntax error I'll send my original, unmodified
> dhcpd.conf file.

Your dhcpd.conf file worked fine. Thank you.

I still wasn't able to get vbe to work. Everything looked in order, but no 
connection. I may have messed up the install of vbe. 

Anyway, I decided to try and configure tun0 direct. After *much* ado I've 
finally got my connection (almost). I would have never pulled it off with the 
knowledge gained from you. 

My Qemu network now connects to network shares, and I have a working internet 
connection under Linux guests.
For some reason, I cannot get internet on Win98. Network shares works fine but 
no net. Even switching to -user-net doesn't help, so it's probably a Windows 
problem.

Only thing left to try is reinstall Windows and see if that helps.

Just wanted to update, and throw a final thanks at ya. :)

-jm

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Use the virtual network.

The usual solution in emualtors to transferring data between Windows
Guest and Linux is to use Windows File Sharing (SMB). Share out a drive
from your 98 machine and mount it on Linux using Samba.

Also you can use simpler things like HTTP. FTP.

-- John.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[vaise]

On Tuesday 13 July 2004 00:25, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> Use the virtual network.
>
> The usual solution in emualtors to transferring data between Windows
> Guest and Linux is to use Windows File Sharing (SMB). Share out a drive
> from your 98 machine and mount it on Linux using Samba.
>
Or safer solution, use Samba not as a client, but as a server. In windows do a 
right click on "My Computer", then "map drive".
But I agree that if you have never set up Samba before, John's solution is 
much simplier.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Sebastien Bechet]

Better idea is to write ntfs or vfat driver for windows witch can use
qemu backdoor IO port to have directly windows filesystem on linux
filesystem.

Bye.

-- 
Sebastien Bechet <s.bechet@av7.net>
av7.net

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastien Bechet wrote:
| Better idea is to write ntfs or vfat driver for windows witch can use
| qemu backdoor IO port to have directly windows filesystem on linux
| filesystem.

load it from the floppy and install windows directly into a directory
on linux side :)))) without img or cow image :)))) yeah!!! :)))

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
| load it from the floppy and install windows directly into a directory
| on linux side :)))) without img or cow image :)))) yeah!!! :)))

I was too optimistic, windows could not boot from unsupported
file systems, but look here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winext2fsd

It's a windows nt driver for ext2 partitions. maybe we could
change it so instead of writting files on real drive it will
pass commands to qemu? file system is not so important, but
this driver is lgpl'ed.

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Filip Navara]

Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
[snip]

> It's a windows nt driver for ext2 partitions. maybe we could
> change it so instead of writting files on real drive it will
> pass commands to qemu? file system is not so important, but
> this driver is lgpl'ed.

At first guys, you confuse file system drivers and storage drivers. The 
file system drivers have de facto no knowledge on which disk are the 
data located, (on Windows) they recieve an object and send Read/Write 
requests to it (well, basicly, in reality there's also the cache manager 
between them). At second, the idea can't work, even if you would have a 
storage driver that uses some backdoor I/O port to access host disk, the 
host OS can't access the same partition at the same time due to things 
like caching (on both sides (guest/host)).

- Filip

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 10:22, Filip Navara wrote:
> Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > It's a windows nt driver for ext2 partitions. maybe we could
> > change it so instead of writting files on real drive it will
> > pass commands to qemu? file system is not so important, but
> > this driver is lgpl'ed.
> 
> At first guys, you confuse file system drivers and storage drivers. The 
> file system drivers have de facto no knowledge on which disk are the 
> data located, (on Windows) they recieve an object and send Read/Write 
> requests to it (well, basicly, in reality there's also the cache manager 
> between them). At second, the idea can't work, even if you would have a 
> storage driver that uses some backdoor I/O port to access host disk, the 
> host OS can't access the same partition at the same time due to things 
> like caching (on both sides (guest/host)).
> 

Yes, it is a non-workable idea to try to share a filesystem between two
running OSes.

On a slightly different tack, if your guest OS image was no longer
bootable for some reason it would be nice to be able to mount the file
system within that image for the purpose of data recovery.

Is there a way to do that?

-- John.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
| Yes, it is a non-workable idea to try to share a filesystem between two
| running OSes.

I don't agree because samba for example is the application that does it.

- - change samba serwer to little server builded-in into qemu
- - change smb windows client to filesystem driver communicating with our
server
- - change tcp protocol to hidden ioports communication between windows
driver and qemu little-server (like vmware-tools communication protocol)

and it will be the thing that I'm talking about.

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 10:58, Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> | Yes, it is a non-workable idea to try to share a filesystem between two
> | running OSes.
> 
> I don't agree because samba for example is the application that does it.
> 
> - - change samba serwer to little server builded-in into qemu
> - - change smb windows client to filesystem driver communicating with our
> server

Ah. Could I phrase it as: you wish to share the drive through Windows
networking but you want to share it through QEMU communicating through
I/O ports to the loopback device only.

I guess then there is no need to set up real networking between guest
and host just to share files.

That is in the realm of the possible. Wouldn't it be easier though just
to set up the virtual network?

-- John.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
| Ah. Could I phrase it as: you wish to share the drive through Windows
| networking but you want to share it through QEMU communicating through
| I/O ports to the loopback device only.
rather using special driver than windows networking. just like zip
drive for example or drive created by "subst" command.

| I guess then there is no need to set up real networking between guest
| and host just to share files.
yes.

| That is in the realm of the possible. Wouldn't it be easier though just
| to set up the virtual network?
1) virtual network is still not working for me :/
2) do we really need all samba installation and configuration, windows
networking, users, passwords, just to share some files?
3) maybe we can find a way to boot guest os from this emulated drive
without .img files? resizing it is not very comfortable and reiserfs is
better than fat/ntfs.

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 08:31:57PM +0200, Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> 1) virtual network is still not working for me :/
> 2) do we really need all samba installation and configuration, windows
> networking, users, passwords, just to share some files?
> 3) maybe we can find a way to boot guest os from this emulated drive
> without .img files? resizing it is not very comfortable and reiserfs is
> better than fat/ntfs.
> 
> - --
> Pozdrowienia
> Adrian Smarzewski

1) and 2) are satified with a built-in qemu ftp server.

3) does need a hack (even a builtin SMB/CIFS server wouldn't work as we'd need
to emulate a physical disk). This is extremely tricky tho.

As for resizing disk images, that could be solved if we had our own version of
mkfile (the DOSMinix disk image maker, which can resize disk images as well as
create them, without any data loss (ok if you shrink an image you lose the data
at the end of it, but otherwise there is no data loss)). I think mkfile is
open-source so it should be easy to port to qemu. I should also point out that
mkfile seems to work on raw disk images.

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFA9CqdgnuWEmthbpURAs4vAJ9+1Yw+ZsMDgQw8WBGF6M+P9COXjgCeMJBI
> RlTRyKjjfRbOC/lXswRfE1Q=
> =Pdro
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jim C. Brown wrote:
| 1) and 2) are satified with a built-in qemu ftp server.
are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp resources as
a windows drive (read/write)?

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Antony T Curtis]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 10:50, Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Jim C. Brown wrote:
> | 1) and 2) are satified with a built-in qemu ftp server.
> are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp resources as
> a windows drive (read/write)?

How about using Microsoft's free Services for Unix download... It has
the GNU tools, a NFS client, NFS server and more.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/sfu/downloads/default.asp

You may need to create a HotMail/MSPassport account in order to download
it - it is quite large, about 250MB and includes sources for GNU parts.

Funny that Microsoft is distributing GNU binaries and source... and on
the other hand, they say that GNU is evil....

-- 
Antony T Curtis <antony.t.curtis@ntlworld.com>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Fabrice Bellard]

Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Jim C. Brown wrote:
> | 1) and 2) are satified with a built-in qemu ftp server.
> are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp resources as
> a windows drive (read/write)?

Here are the solutions I see (in order of increasing complexity):

1) built-in FTP server in the SLIRP layer.

2) On the fly read-only FAT drive built from a host directory content. 
It is complementary to (1) to enable booting without a disk image ((2) 
is used with (3) in dosemu for example).

3) dosemu MSDOS redirector. Would only work with MSDOS based OSes (maybe 
up to Windows Me).

4) Integrated SMB server in the SLIRP layer. SMB is complicated because 
it has many variants. If an early version works with all Windows version 
it can be interesting.

5) Windows specific filesystem driver talking directly with QEMU.

Fabrice.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Fabrice Bellard wrote:
| Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
|> are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp resources as
|> a windows drive (read/write)?
I've found this one:
http://www.knoware.com/index.php?pg=./products/inpro/index
but It's not free :/

| 1) built-in FTP server in the SLIRP layer.
FTP is simpler that SMB and every OS has FTP client I think.
I will vote for this if I find free replacement for above ftp client
with drive mapping feature ;)

| 2) On the fly read-only FAT drive built from a host directory content.
| It is complementary to (1) to enable booting without a disk image
This two will be perfect for me. . And FAT structure is also not very
complicated to build. But can you boot windows 2000 for example
using read-only drive?

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
| Fabrice Bellard wrote:
| | Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
| |> are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp resources as
| |> a windows drive (read/write)?
| I've found this one:
| http://www.knoware.com/index.php?pg=./products/inpro/index
| but It's not free :/
And www.webdrive.com but we will need free alternative
to win with smb.

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Brad Watson]

Hi Fabrice,

I like option 1 since it is less "DOS centric," and
more generic solution.

Kind Regards,

Brad Watson


--- Fabrice Bellard <fabrice@bellard.org> wrote:
> Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Jim C. Brown wrote:
> > | 1) and 2) are satified with a built-in qemu ftp
> server.
> > are there any windows ftp-clients mounting ftp
> resources as
> > a windows drive (read/write)?
> 
> Here are the solutions I see (in order of increasing
> complexity):
> 
> 1) built-in FTP server in the SLIRP layer.
> 
> 2) On the fly read-only FAT drive built from a host
> directory content. 
> It is complementary to (1) to enable booting without
> a disk image ((2) 
> is used with (3) in dosemu for example).
> 
> 3) dosemu MSDOS redirector. Would only work with
> MSDOS based OSes (maybe 
> up to Windows Me).
> 
> 4) Integrated SMB server in the SLIRP layer. SMB is
> complicated because 
> it has many variants. If an early version works with
> all Windows version 
> it can be interesting.
> 
> 5) Windows specific filesystem driver talking
> directly with QEMU.
> 
> Fabrice.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
> 



		
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

Brad Watson wrote:
| I like option 1 since it is less "DOS centric," and
| more generic solution.
|
| --- Fabrice Bellard <fabrice@bellard.org> wrote:
|

Please do not use top-posting and cut quotes.

-- 
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 04:11, Fabrice Bellard wrote:

> 1) built-in FTP server in the SLIRP layer.

HTTP was intended at least in part to replace FTP. It might make more
sense as a file transfer protocol. Maybe integrate a simple web server
into SLIRP layer instead of FTP?

Of course you would need some basic security like default the service to
being OFF, and once enabled defaulted to allowing connections from
localhost only.

Makes you wonder what else would be interesting besides some of the file
system one could expose through a default web page by QEMU. Things like:
whether in BIOS code, cpu utilization, a recent snapshot of the screen,
some basic things about processor mode, amount of RAM in use, perhaps
some control buttons like RESET, SUSPEND, PAUSE, partitions and %full,
etc.

-- John.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Leigh Dyer]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 09:44 -0700, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 04:11, Fabrice Bellard wrote:
> 
> > 1) built-in FTP server in the SLIRP layer.
> 
> HTTP was intended at least in part to replace FTP. It might make more
> sense as a file transfer protocol. Maybe integrate a simple web server
> into SLIRP layer instead of FTP?

I also like the idea of a web server instead of an FTP server. A basic
web server would be quite a bit easier to write than an FTP server, and
it could later be extended with a basic WebDAV implementation to support
more filesystem-like read-write access.

The downside is that WebDAV is possibly more complex to implement than
FTP, and a HTTP server without WebDAV is only really a partial solution,
since there's no really easy way to do guest->host transfers.

Thanks
Leigh

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:38, Leigh Dyer wrote:

> I also like the idea of a web server instead of an FTP server. A basic
> web server would be quite a bit easier to write than an FTP server, and
> it could later be extended with a basic WebDAV implementation to support
> more filesystem-like read-write access.
> 
> The downside is that WebDAV is possibly more complex to implement than
> FTP, and a HTTP server without WebDAV is only really a partial solution,
> since there's no really easy way to do guest->host transfers.
> 

I don't know what WebDAV is but if you implement http GET and PUT you
have a full solution to transferring files, just no security. OP just
wanted a way to do easy clipboard between the two, no security there
either.

But usual FTP doesn't give you real security anyway, so no big
difference really.

Security can be added in the form of cgi scripts, authentication, even
encryption (HTTPS or SSL) later on. Just need to pick the right web
server to embed, and figure out the business end of it that integrates
with SMB (would have to utilize samba...).

And actually I don't think we would need to write yet another web
server. There are several on Freshmeat, including lightweight ones, for
the picking.

Seems kind of exciting prospect actually. Imagine you have some legacy
part of a business process running under windows. With an easy file
sharing scheme like this, Windows+app becomes a black box with enough
inputs/outputs and levers (some HTTP POST commands) to run essentially
headless.

Later,

-- John.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Leigh Dyer]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 22:25 -0700, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:38, Leigh Dyer wrote:
> 
> > I also like the idea of a web server instead of an FTP server. A basic
> > web server would be quite a bit easier to write than an FTP server, and
> > it could later be extended with a basic WebDAV implementation to support
> > more filesystem-like read-write access.
> > 
> > The downside is that WebDAV is possibly more complex to implement than
> > FTP, and a HTTP server without WebDAV is only really a partial solution,
> > since there's no really easy way to do guest->host transfers.
> > 
> 
> I don't know what WebDAV is but if you implement http GET and PUT you
> have a full solution to transferring files, just no security. OP just
> wanted a way to do easy clipboard between the two, no security there
> either.

WebDAV's an extension of HTTP that allows for FTP-style directory level
access. IE does WebDAV quite nicely (it calls the idea "Web Folders"),
so you can open an IE window to browse your WebDAV folders that looks
and acts pretty much like a standard Explorer window. I think it could
be a good alternative to trying to implement something far more complex
like SMB. 

WebDAV is implemented by adding extra HTTP methods on top of the usual
T/POST, so it would easily be possible to throw a basic web server in to
QEMU now and flesh it out with WebDAV support later.

Thanks
Leigh

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 07:58:19PM +0200, Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> | Yes, it is a non-workable idea to try to share a filesystem between two
> | running OSes.
> 
> I don't agree because samba for example is the application that does it.
> 
> - - change samba serwer to little server builded-in into qemu
> - - change smb windows client to filesystem driver communicating with our
> server
> - - change tcp protocol to hidden ioports communication between windows
> driver and qemu little-server (like vmware-tools communication protocol)
> 
> and it will be the thing that I'm talking about.
> 
> - --
> Pozdrowienia
> Adrian Smarzewski

You don't need the second step,

> - - change smb windows client to filesystem driver communicating with our
> server

but the rest is workable. VMware actually does this, iirc. It would be easier
to support NFS as the special protocol and use an open-source NFS client for
Windows tho.
Then again, do we really need full filesystem access? It would be simpler for
qemu to emulate an ftp server on the guest side (use "-ftp" option to turn
the server on, and "-ftpdir <dir>" to tell qemu where it should serve from).

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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> =GDW5
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:45:40AM -0700, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> On a slightly different tack, if your guest OS image was no longer
> bootable for some reason it would be nice to be able to mount the file
> system within that image for the purpose of data recovery.
> 
> Is there a way to do that?
> 
> -- John.
> 
> 

FreeBSD has the ability to read the partition table from a raw disk image and
mount the partition on it natively (or so I'm told at least). Not sure about
the other BSDs.

Under Linux you can use lomount.

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Johannes Martin]

Hi,

I haven't followed this track completely, but one option that might not be
too difficult to implement would be to use emufs.sys or lredir.exe from
xdosemu. I'm not sure whether they are limited to plain old dos or whether
they'll work in windows 9x/me as well.

Just a thought
	Johannes

P.S.: personally, I think sharing via smb or some other protocol is the
      better option as it doesn't require any special guest code.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Filip Navara wrote:
| At first guys, you confuse file system drivers and storage drivers. The
| file system drivers have de facto no knowledge on which disk are the
| data located, (on Windows) they recieve an object and send Read/Write

I don't know how exactly filesystems works in windows but I'm talking
about someting like "subst" command. But instead of redirecting file
access routines to real windows file system driver (with new,
substituted patch) it will redirect it to qemu and linux filesystem.
The real write access will be made by linux kernel (via glibc).

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Sebastien Bechet]

Le mar 13/07/2004 à 19:22, Filip Navara wrote :
> At first guys, you confuse file system drivers and storage drivers. The 
> file system drivers have de facto no knowledge on which disk are the 
> data located, (on Windows) they recieve an object and send Read/Write 
> requests to it (well, basicly, in reality there's also the cache manager 
> between them).

So on windows :

(A = Application) <-> (B = receive an object and send r/w) <-> (C =
cachemgr) <-> (B = ntfs.sys or vfat or ...)

What is B ? DLL Name, SYS Name ? Registry ? API Size ?
Why not to rewrite B in guest to access IOCTL Host OS using Backdoor
qemu IO port ? Maybe Wine LGPL work is usable to do that ?

With this method we can have windows files directly on linux filesystem
and we can share it directly ! In my opinion this idea _can_ work and is
a killer feature but only for Windows GURU (meditation ;p) ...

> At second, the idea can't work, even if you would have a 
> storage driver that uses some backdoor I/O port to access host disk, the 
> host OS can't access the same partition at the same time due to things 
> like caching (on both sides (guest/host)).
Not host disk access, filesystem linux kernel IOCTL access.

Bye.
-- 
Sebastien Bechet <s.bechet@av7.net>
av7.net

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 07:22:45PM +0200, Filip Navara wrote:
> Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> >It's a windows nt driver for ext2 partitions. maybe we could
> >change it so instead of writting files on real drive it will
> >pass commands to qemu? file system is not so important, but
> >this driver is lgpl'ed.
> 
> At first guys, you confuse file system drivers and storage drivers. The 
> file system drivers have de facto no knowledge on which disk are the 
> data located, (on Windows) they recieve an object and send Read/Write 
> requests to it (well, basicly, in reality there's also the cache manager 
> between them). At second, the idea can't work, even if you would have a 
> storage driver that uses some backdoor I/O port to access host disk, the 
> host OS can't access the same partition at the same time due to things 
> like caching (on both sides (guest/host)).
> 
> - Filip
> 
> 

Technically speaking, one could write a file system driver that talks to qemu
instead of going through a storage driver. (I didn't say it would be easy, just
barely possible.) Qemu could then translate attempts (to write a file on Windows
using this driver would cause qemu to write the file on linux's fs natively for
example). It is more work than its worth, but it is possible.

A modified user-net which emulated SMB protocol to the guest but did the i/o
natively on the host would do the same thing and be easier to implement.

Setting up tuntap or VDE is easiest of all. :)

> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty.
Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Filip Navara]

Jim C. Brown wrote:

>Technically speaking, one could write a file system driver that talks to qemu
>instead of going through a storage driver. (I didn't say it would be easy, just
>barely possible.) Qemu could then translate attempts (to write a file on Windows
>using this driver would cause qemu to write the file on linux's fs natively for
>example). It is more work than its worth, but it is possible.
>  
>
Strictly technically you would need to fake a storage device (~ 1000 
lines code) since Windows can't mount filesystem without a device and 
then you can write a file system driver that will recoginze the fake 
device and act as you described. I agree, yes, doing this is possible, 
but it would be pretty complex to implement for no real gain. It's less 
flexible than any solution based on networking (since you would have to 
write a guest driver for every OS that you want to use the feature in) 
and the speed increase would be marginal if any.

>A modified user-net which emulated SMB protocol to the guest but did the i/o
>natively on the host would do the same thing and be easier to implement.
>  
>
Again, I agree, that's the way to go.

Regards,
Filip

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jim C. Brown wrote:
| Setting up tuntap
didn't work and I'm not a newbie :(
maybe gentoo patched kernel is the problem.
I will try again soon.

- --
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski
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=utLw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Adrian Smarzewski]

Jim C. Brown wrote:
| Setting up tuntap
didn't work and I'm not a linux newbie :(
maybe gentoo patched kernel is the problem.
I will try again soon.

-- 
Pozdrowienia
Adrian Smarzewski

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[J. Mayer]

On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 11:55, Adrian Smarzewski wrote:
> Jim C. Brown wrote:
> | Setting up tuntap
> didn't work and I'm not a linux newbie :(
> maybe gentoo patched kernel is the problem.

I guess not:
tun/tap is functional on Gentoo with kernel 2.6 and qemu is able to use
it (x86 and x86_64).
Don't know with 2.4 kernels, but it should also work fine.

-- 
J. Mayer <l_indien@magic.fr>
Never organized

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Jim C. Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 04:08:22PM +0200, Sebastien Bechet wrote:
> Better idea is to write ntfs or vfat driver for windows witch can use
> qemu backdoor IO port to have directly windows filesystem on linux
> filesystem.
> 
> Bye.
> 
> -- 
> Sebastien Bechet <s.bechet@av7.net>
> av7.net
> 
> 

That would be quite a bit of work, both on the qemu side and for the guest OS.

It is possible (to e.g. have a hacked vfat driver that instead of passing
requests to the disk manager pass these requests directly to qemu and have qemu
translate it into native linux file accesses) but even if done well, its a
major hack.

> 
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> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel

-- 
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Infinite precision begets infinite perfection.

[Qemu-devel] Re: Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Robert Wittams]

Mario Cazorzi wrote:
> I have just installed Windows98 on my Linux machine (Suse 9.1 64bit, sata HD).
> Qemu works really very, very good.
> The only thing I missed is the possibility to exchange data between the two 
> OS. (I mean cut and paste).
> Probably at the moment the only possibility is to make a fat32 partition so I 
> can see it from Linux and from Windows too.
> Is that the only solution (if I can spare so a partition I will be very 
> happy).
> 
> mcz 

Maybe something like http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ could be used for 
cut and paste - just need to adapt it for one screen embedded in the 
other rather than side by side....

rob

Re: [Qemu-devel] Win98: how to exchange data with Linux

[Mario Cazorzi]

I've used lomount to copy some files from linux to windows.
I've also downloaded VDE, but it is a too difficult for me.
I work really very little with Windows.
Thank you very much for all your tips.

Mario
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