[Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Blue Swirl]

I'd like to replace Proll with OpenBIOS as the Qemu/Sparc32 boot prom and 
then develop a Sparc64 port that would finally make the Sparc64 system 
emulator usable.

OpenBIOS/Sparc32 has reached or exceeded the level of functionality that 
Proll provides:
* boot from HDD and CD (several Linux distro installers work, NetBSD and 
Solaris in progress)
* preloaded kernel, initrd and command line support
* Forth support, which is needed for Sparc64, maybe also for other OSes than 
Linux on Sparc32
* graphical console and -nographic support
* SMP support

One big advantage is that OpenBIOS is actively being developed at the 
moment. OpenBIOS is very portable, currently x86, ppc, sparc32, and amd64 
are supported. The only missing feature is TFTP boot ability, but that is in 
my opinion not very useful for Qemu, as you can preload the kernel.

What do you think, is the switch okay, and if so, when can this happen?

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Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Paul Brook]

On Wednesday 07 June 2006 16:56, Blue Swirl wrote:
> I'd like to replace Proll with OpenBIOS as the Qemu/Sparc32 boot prom and
> then develop a Sparc64 port that would finally make the Sparc64 system
> emulator usable.
>...
> What do you think, is the switch okay, and if so, when can this happen? 

Sounds like a good idea to me, and the sooner the better.
Even if we find some things that work with proll but not openbios I guess 
there's a good chance of getting openbios fixed.

Paul

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Natalia Portillo]

I propose the same for QEMU/PowerPC.

However I was not able to test OpenBIOS over it as I did not find an  
OpenBIOS/PPC binary and cannot create it.

Does anyone can/has ?

Regards,
Natalia Portillo

El 07/06/2006, a las 17:17, Paul Brook escribió:

> On Wednesday 07 June 2006 16:56, Blue Swirl wrote:
>> I'd like to replace Proll with OpenBIOS as the Qemu/Sparc32 boot  
>> prom and
>> then develop a Sparc64 port that would finally make the Sparc64  
>> system
>> emulator usable.
>> ...
>> What do you think, is the switch okay, and if so, when can this  
>> happen?
>
> Sounds like a good idea to me, and the sooner the better.
> Even if we find some things that work with proll but not openbios I  
> guess
> there's a good chance of getting openbios fixed.
>
> Paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Joshua Root]

Natalia Portillo wrote:
> I propose the same for QEMU/PowerPC.

It would be nice to some day be able to use QEMU to run classic Mac OS,
now that Apple has discontinued the classic environment in OS X. Would
switching to OpenBIOS negatively affect efforts in this direction?

- Josh

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Natalia Portillo]

Au contraire,

It will positively.

Currently OHW is unable to load anything, and when it was able, Mac  
OS complained about the firmware not being able.
However the Apple implementation of OF was very simple and incomplete  
until B&W G3, just enough to interpret the CHRP script in /System  
Folder/Mac OS ROM file, and load the binary data on it (the Mac OS  
nanokernel that emulates the toolbox, contains the 68 emulator, and  
links/loads the System and Finder.).

OpenBIOS is a far more complete OF implementation than Apple ones  
used to load Mac OS <= 9.
Just it need to be able to read HFS partition, handle CUDA, ADB,  
other devices, and, it will be able to run a Mac OS.

If I'm wrong, Gwenole please correct me :p.

Regards
El 07/06/2006, a las 17:54, Joshua Root escribió:

> Natalia Portillo wrote:
>> I propose the same for QEMU/PowerPC.
>
> It would be nice to some day be able to use QEMU to run classic Mac  
> OS,
> now that Apple has discontinued the classic environment in OS X. Would
> switching to OpenBIOS negatively affect efforts in this direction?
>
> - Josh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for PowerPC? (was: Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?)

[Joshua Root]

Natalia Portillo wrote:
> OpenBIOS is a far more complete OF implementation than Apple ones used
> to load Mac OS <= 9.
> Just it need to be able to read HFS partition, handle CUDA, ADB, other
> devices, and, it will be able to run a Mac OS.

OK, great. One small correction though: Mac OS since at least version
8.1 is perfectly happy without ADB as long as it has USB. I guess if we
want to run older versions we still need ADB though. :)

- Josh

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for PowerPC? (was: Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?)

[Natalia Portillo]

I personally am not happy with partial emulations.

So, having ADB, is a must for a G3 beige or previous macintosh  
emulation.

El 07/06/2006, a las 18:39, Joshua Root escribió:

> Natalia Portillo wrote:
>> OpenBIOS is a far more complete OF implementation than Apple ones  
>> used
>> to load Mac OS <= 9.
>> Just it need to be able to read HFS partition, handle CUDA, ADB,  
>> other
>> devices, and, it will be able to run a Mac OS.
>
> OK, great. One small correction though: Mac OS since at least version
> 8.1 is perfectly happy without ADB as long as it has USB. I guess  
> if we
> want to run older versions we still need ADB though. :)
>
> - Josh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Blue Swirl]

>Sounds like a good idea to me, and the sooner the better.
>Even if we find some things that work with proll but not openbios I guess
>there's a good chance of getting openbios fixed.

So I'll send you a patch that changes the name 'proll.elf' to 
'openbios-builtin.elf' (or maybe it's better to use something like 
'openbios-sparc32', simplifies the code) and a sample OpenBIOS file and 
that's it?

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Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Paul Brook]

On Wednesday 07 June 2006 20:24, Blue Swirl wrote:
> >Sounds like a good idea to me, and the sooner the better.
> >Even if we find some things that work with proll but not openbios I guess
> >there's a good chance of getting openbios fixed.
>
> So I'll send you a patch that changes the name 'proll.elf' to
> 'openbios-builtin.elf' (or maybe it's better to use something like
> 'openbios-sparc32', simplifies the code) and a sample OpenBIOS file and
> that's it?

Yes. Plus documentation bits.

Bonus points if you include a README describing where the bios comes from and 
basic description of how to reproduce it, even if this is just "download the 
openbios sources and they should just work".

Paul

[Qemu-devel] Good news for Gentoo Linux users

[Natalia Portillo]

Hi all,

I just made an ebuild for Gentoo Linux that directly takes QEMU from CVS

You can find it out here at http://www.claunia.com/qemu/ in the QEMU  
Official OS Support List
It is just after the OS list.

It does support emerging KQEMU and QEMU system emulators, but not  
QVM86 nor QEMU user emulators.
Any comment, suggest, so on, here, or on the IRC channel

Regards,
Natalia Portillo

Re: [Qemu-devel] Good news for Gentoo Linux users

[Jan Marten Simons]

Am Mittwoch, 7. Juni 2006 23:03 schrieb Natalia Portillo:
> Hi all,
>
> I just made an ebuild for Gentoo Linux that directly takes QEMU from CVS
>
> You can find it out here at http://www.claunia.com/qemu/ in the QEMU
> Official OS Support List
> It is just after the OS list.
>
> It does support emerging KQEMU and QEMU system emulators, but not
> QVM86 nor QEMU user emulators.
> Any comment, suggest, so on, here, or on the IRC channel
>
> Regards,
> Natalia Portillo

Hi Natalia,

I've no intention to discourage you, but a cvs-ebuild for qemu has been in 
bugzilla for some months now: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125668

With regards,
Jan

PS: It's always a good idea to first look into bugs.gentoo.org and the current 
portage tree before starting to write a new ebuild. (I learned this the hard 
way, too).

Re: [Qemu-devel] Good news for Gentoo Linux users

[Natalia Portillo]

I searched in Gentoo Forums, and the link was incorrect, and the  
correction posted went to a 0.7.2 source and there are some differences.
Mine doesnt use FMOD, and works in x86, amd64, ppc and sparc gentoos,  
however the one in the bugs is only for x86 and amd64.
Also mine includes directly the digest so only decompression is needed.

Whatever xD

It works, I shared it.

Regards
El 08/06/2006, a las 10:03, Jan Marten Simons escribió:

> Am Mittwoch, 7. Juni 2006 23:03 schrieb Natalia Portillo:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just made an ebuild for Gentoo Linux that directly takes QEMU  
>> from CVS
>>
>> You can find it out here at http://www.claunia.com/qemu/ in the QEMU
>> Official OS Support List
>> It is just after the OS list.
>>
>> It does support emerging KQEMU and QEMU system emulators, but not
>> QVM86 nor QEMU user emulators.
>> Any comment, suggest, so on, here, or on the IRC channel
>>
>> Regards,
>> Natalia Portillo
>
> Hi Natalia,
>
> I've no intention to discourage you, but a cvs-ebuild for qemu has  
> been in
> bugzilla for some months now: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi? 
> id=125668
>
> With regards,
> Jan
>
> PS: It's always a good idea to first look into bugs.gentoo.org and  
> the current
> portage tree before starting to write a new ebuild. (I learned this  
> the hard
> way, too).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qemu-devel mailing list
> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
>

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Blue Swirl]

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> > So I'll send you a patch that changes the name 'proll.elf' to
> > 'openbios-builtin.elf' (or maybe it's better to use something like
> > 'openbios-sparc32', simplifies the code) and a sample OpenBIOS file and
> > that's it?
>
>Yes. Plus documentation bits.
>
>Bonus points if you include a README describing where the bios comes from 
>and
>basic description of how to reproduce it, even if this is just "download 
>the
>openbios sources and they should just work".

OK, here it goes. I didn't describe the reproduction steps 
(./config/scripts/switch-arch cross-sparc32, make, cp 
obj-sparc32/openbios-builtin.elf.nostrip openbios-sparc32), as I'll propose 
on OpenBIOS side some changes to make this a bit easier.

I included other fixes currently needed for correct operation (clock year 
fix, FPU fix by Joerg Platte, MMU no-fault fix).

I'll send the binary off-list to avoid the mailing list imposed size 
restrictions. It's built from unmodified SVN revision 54.

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Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Fabrice Bellard]

Hi,

Good to see that you can use OpenBIOS now ! I'll apply your patch ASAP.

Regards,

Fabrice.

Blue Swirl wrote:
>> > So I'll send you a patch that changes the name 'proll.elf' to
>> > 'openbios-builtin.elf' (or maybe it's better to use something like
>> > 'openbios-sparc32', simplifies the code) and a sample OpenBIOS file and
>> > that's it?
>>
>> Yes. Plus documentation bits.
>>
>> Bonus points if you include a README describing where the bios comes 
>> from and
>> basic description of how to reproduce it, even if this is just 
>> "download the
>> openbios sources and they should just work".
> 
> 
> OK, here it goes. I didn't describe the reproduction steps 
> (./config/scripts/switch-arch cross-sparc32, make, cp 
> obj-sparc32/openbios-builtin.elf.nostrip openbios-sparc32), as I'll 
> propose on OpenBIOS side some changes to make this a bit easier.
> 
> I included other fixes currently needed for correct operation (clock 
> year fix, FPU fix by Joerg Platte, MMU no-fault fix).
> 
> I'll send the binary off-list to avoid the mailing list imposed size 
> restrictions. It's built from unmodified SVN revision 54.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! 
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Armistead, Jason]

In response to Blue Swirl writing: 

> So I'll send you a patch that changes the name 'proll.elf' to
> 'openbios-builtin.elf' (or maybe it's better to use something like
> 'openbios-sparc32', simplifies the code) and a sample OpenBIOS file and
> that's it?

Fabrice then wrote:

>
>Good to see that you can use OpenBIOS now ! I'll apply your patch ASAP.
>

Might I add my thoughts on this subject ?

How about allowing the BIOS filename to be specified from the QEMU command
line also ?

Yes, if the BIOS is not specified then we should use a reasonable default
file instead.

But, if for example we specifically want to choose some other BIOS file,
then how about a "-bios filename" option so that we can use whatever BIOS we
like as an override.

e..g if the Sparc OpenBIOS developers might like the concept of having
different QEMU invocation scripts that they can call up depending on whether
they want to use a "stable" BIOS or rely on the latest SVN snapshot, they
should be able to do that too, without having to have a separate directory
with another copy of QEMU and associated disk image files in it.  Maybe they
want to compare against PROLL for some reason too.  It is all much simpler
if you can just specify the BIOS file rather than having to move BIOS files
around.

Cheers

Jason

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Fabrice Bellard]

Blue Swirl wrote:

> I included other fixes currently needed for correct operation (clock 
> year fix, FPU fix by Joerg Platte, MMU no-fault fix).

Note: the FPU "fix" should be revisited because it is really not 
optimal. Here are some ideas to implement it better:

1) Include the bit 'psref' in the static translation state (in 
tb->flags). Then psref can be tested at translation time and there is no 
run time cost. This approach is used on the x86 target. The downside is 
that two TBs may be generated for a given block of code depending on the 
psref value. Ideally if no FPU operations are used in the TB, psref 
should be ignored (not done yet on x86).

2) Keep psref dynamic, but test it only once per TB using FPU 
operations. In case of exception, rebuilt the CPU state as with MMU 
exceptions so that save_state() is not needed.

I tend to prefer the solution (1).

Fabrice.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Switch to OpenBIOS for Sparc32/64?

[Blue Swirl]

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>1) Include the bit 'psref' in the static translation state (in tb->flags). 
>Then psref can be tested at translation time and there is no run time cost. 
>This approach is used on the x86 target. The downside is that two TBs may 
>be generated for a given block of code depending on the psref value. 
>Ideally if no FPU operations are used in the TB, psref should be ignored 
>(not done yet on x86).

Is the attached patch what you had in mind?

Record FPU enabled/disabled condition to TB flags, generate code statically
based on translation time state.

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