[Qemu-devel] guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Qemu-devel] guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

The option formerly known as -net channel was changed to:

  -net user,guestfwd=[tcp]:server:port-dev

which in general would be an improvement.  libguestfs currently uses:

  -net channel,6666:unix:/some/path,server,nowait

which works (probably by accident, because the code happens not to use
get_param_value).  However in the new syntax that would be:

  -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/some/path,server,nowait

This gives errors like:

  qemu: invalid parameter 'server,nowait' in 'vlan=0,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/tmp/libguestfshRZgxr/sock,server,nowait'

It seems like the code tries to do the right thing for the hostfwd and
guestfwd parameters.  There is a while loop which seems to check for
these parameters explicitly, but it doesn't work -- I'm not sure why.

libguestfs is continuing to use the old, working -net channel form of
this parameter, so please don't remove it.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines.  Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages.  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/
See what it can do: http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/recipes.html

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 03:39:36PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> libguestfs is continuing to use the old, working
                                           ^^^^^^^

Actually I'll take that back.  guestfwd seems to get stuck /
deadlocked after sending a couple of messages back and forwards.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines.  Boot with a
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[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> The option formerly known as -net channel was changed to:
> 
>   -net user,guestfwd=[tcp]:server:port-dev
> 
> which in general would be an improvement.  libguestfs currently uses:
> 
>   -net channel,6666:unix:/some/path,server,nowait
> 
> which works (probably by accident, because the code happens not to use
> get_param_value).

I suspect so...

>  However in the new syntax that would be:
> 
>   -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/some/path,server,nowait
> 
> This gives errors like:
> 
>   qemu: invalid parameter 'server,nowait' in 'vlan=0,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/tmp/libguestfshRZgxr/sock,server,nowait'

Yep, that case does not fit into the syntax of comma-separated
arguments. We need to find a new syntax within the given constraints.
Need to think about it.

> 
> It seems like the code tries to do the right thing for the hostfwd and
> guestfwd parameters.  There is a while loop which seems to check for
> these parameters explicitly, but it doesn't work -- I'm not sure why.

What is your precise qemu command line? I noticed that omitting "-net
user" while specifying "-net channel" seems to miss instantiating a
default slirp stack. That should be easy to fix, will have a look. If
your problem is a different one, please describe the details.

> 
> libguestfs is continuing to use the old, working -net channel form of
> this parameter, so please don't remove it.

It won't be removed in the foreseeable future for backward
compatibility. But we also need to fix the new format as the old one
does not allow to specify the slirp stack it should be apply to.

Jan

-- 
Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT SE 2
Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 07:39:39PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> What is your precise qemu command line? I noticed that omitting "-net
> user" while specifying "-net channel" seems to miss instantiating a
> default slirp stack. That should be easy to fix, will have a look. If
> your problem is a different one, please describe the details.

This is my full command line, where $qemudir is my qemu git directory.

$qemudir/i386-softmmu/qemu -L $qemudir/pc-bios \
  -drive file=/tmp/test.img,cache=off,if=ide \
  -m 500 -no-reboot \
  -kernel /tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/kernel -initrd /tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/initrd \
  -append 'panic=1 console=ttyS0 udevtimeout=300 noapic acpi=off guestfs=10.0.2.4:6666 guestfs_verbose=1' \
  -nographic -serial stdio \
  -net channel,6666:unix:/tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/sock,server,nowait \
  -net user,vlan=0 \
  -net nic,model=virtio,vlan=0 \
  -no-hpet -rtc-td-hack

The above works with qemu 0.10.4, but not with qemu 0.10.5 where there
is a hang (which I'm investigating - first send from guest -> host
works, response from host -> guest disappears into the ether
somewhere).

> > 
> > libguestfs is continuing to use the old, working -net channel form of
> > this parameter, so please don't remove it.
> 
> It won't be removed in the foreseeable future for backward
> compatibility. But we also need to fix the new format as the old one
> does not allow to specify the slirp stack it should be apply to.

Good to know, thanks.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines.  Boot with a
live CD or over the network (PXE) and turn machines into Xen guests.
http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-p2v

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 07:39:39PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
>> What is your precise qemu command line? I noticed that omitting "-net
>> user" while specifying "-net channel" seems to miss instantiating a
>> default slirp stack. That should be easy to fix, will have a look. If
>> your problem is a different one, please describe the details.
> 
> This is my full command line, where $qemudir is my qemu git directory.
> 
> $qemudir/i386-softmmu/qemu -L $qemudir/pc-bios \
>   -drive file=/tmp/test.img,cache=off,if=ide \
>   -m 500 -no-reboot \
>   -kernel /tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/kernel -initrd /tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/initrd \
>   -append 'panic=1 console=ttyS0 udevtimeout=300 noapic acpi=off guestfs=10.0.2.4:6666 guestfs_verbose=1' \
>   -nographic -serial stdio \
>   -net channel,6666:unix:/tmp/libguestfsivUi3g/sock,server,nowait \
>   -net user,vlan=0 \
>   -net nic,model=virtio,vlan=0 \
>   -no-hpet -rtc-td-hack
> 
> The above works with qemu 0.10.4, but not with qemu 0.10.5 where there

So this particular issue is (also?) a -stable regression? That should be
easily bisectible.

> is a hang (which I'm investigating - first send from guest -> host
> works, response from host -> guest disappears into the ether
> somewhere).
> 
>>> libguestfs is continuing to use the old, working -net channel form of
>>> this parameter, so please don't remove it.
>> It won't be removed in the foreseeable future for backward
>> compatibility. But we also need to fix the new format as the old one
>> does not allow to specify the slirp stack it should be apply to.
> 
> Good to know, thanks.
> 
> Rich.
> 

Jan

-- 
Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT SE 2
Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 06:20:06PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> So this particular issue is (also?) a -stable regression? That should be
> easily bisectible.

Good idea - I'm going to do that now.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-top is 'top' for virtual machines.  Tiny program with many
powerful monitoring features, net stats, disk stats, logging, etc.
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[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 06:20:06PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> So this particular issue is (also?) a -stable regression? That should be
> easily bisectible.

This is what git-bisect said:

  c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62 is first bad commit
  commit c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62
  Author: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
  Date:   Wed Jun 24 14:42:28 2009 +0200
  
      slirp: Rework external configuration interface
      
      With the internal IP configuration made more flexible, we can now
      enhance the user interface. This patch adds a number of new options to
      "-net user": net (address and mask), host, dhcpstart, dns and smbserver.
      It also renames "redir" to "hostfwd" and "channel" to "guestfwd" in
      order to (hopefully) clarify their meanings. The format of guestfwd is
      extended so that the user can define not only the port but also the
      virtual server's IP address the forwarding starts from.
      
      Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
      Signed-off-by: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
  
  :100644 100644 18c51190bf5ff20625ecaf3de45bd4aab4403044 f26c3f804ec5d234f76e14200e1188d21923a732 M	net.c
  :100644 100644 d1c1539e21caf9da16ef1cd68e29976d1abf576f da5b0ac6a503445431f966de37be0ed3440c6225 M	qemu-options.hx
  :040000 040000 e371676d54aea53190c3ab3fb36a2d9d8da97ded af6ed9e3cc7c650828315f836615ffdb829b02a3 M	slirp

I have stared at the code for quite a while and I don't see the error.

As another data point: I added some fprintf's to guestfwd_can_read and
guestfwd_read and I can tell you that guestfwd_can_read is called
continually (returning 0 each time), while guestfwd_read is never
called.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-top is 'top' for virtual machines.  Tiny program with many
powerful monitoring features, net stats, disk stats, logging, etc.
http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-top

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2159 bytes --]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 06:20:06PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
>> So this particular issue is (also?) a -stable regression? That should be
>> easily bisectible.
> 
> This is what git-bisect said:
> 
>   c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62 is first bad commit
>   commit c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62
>   Author: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
>   Date:   Wed Jun 24 14:42:28 2009 +0200
>   
>       slirp: Rework external configuration interface
>       
>       With the internal IP configuration made more flexible, we can now
>       enhance the user interface. This patch adds a number of new options to
>       "-net user": net (address and mask), host, dhcpstart, dns and smbserver.
>       It also renames "redir" to "hostfwd" and "channel" to "guestfwd" in
>       order to (hopefully) clarify their meanings. The format of guestfwd is
>       extended so that the user can define not only the port but also the
>       virtual server's IP address the forwarding starts from.
>       
>       Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
>       Signed-off-by: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
>   
>   :100644 100644 18c51190bf5ff20625ecaf3de45bd4aab4403044 f26c3f804ec5d234f76e14200e1188d21923a732 M	net.c
>   :100644 100644 d1c1539e21caf9da16ef1cd68e29976d1abf576f da5b0ac6a503445431f966de37be0ed3440c6225 M	qemu-options.hx
>   :040000 040000 e371676d54aea53190c3ab3fb36a2d9d8da97ded af6ed9e3cc7c650828315f836615ffdb829b02a3 M	slirp
> 
> I have stared at the code for quite a while and I don't see the error.

That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
introduce the regression for that series). You are confusing me: Are you
actually seeing a regression with *0.10.5*?

> 
> As another data point: I added some fprintf's to guestfwd_can_read and
> guestfwd_read and I can tell you that guestfwd_can_read is called
> continually (returning 0 each time), while guestfwd_read is never
> called.

Can't tell, need to check the code in more details. Was the
corresponding vmchannel handler called properly in 0.10.x?

Jan


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Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:15:00AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
> introduce the regression for that series). You are confusing me: Are you
> actually seeing a regression with *0.10.5*?

The regression is in both 0.10.5 and git.  It worked in 0.10.4, now it
doesn't work in either 0.10.5 or in git.

Rich.

-- 
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New in Fedora 11: Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows
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Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:15:00AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
>> That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
>> introduce the regression for that series). You are confusing me: Are you
>> actually seeing a regression with *0.10.5*?
> 
> The regression is in both 0.10.5 and git.  It worked in 0.10.4, now it
> doesn't work in either 0.10.5 or in git.
> 

Huh, that's strange. That was my setup:

qemu... -net channel,6666:tcp:localhost:1234,server,nowait -net user
-net nic

Then "telnet localhost 1234" on the host and "telnet 10.0.2.4 6666" on
the guest. Guest->host works in all cases, host->guest only with
stable-0.10 for me.

Jan

-- 
Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT SE 2
Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux

Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:55:12AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:15:00AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> >> That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
> >> introduce the regression for that series). You are confusing me: Are you
> >> actually seeing a regression with *0.10.5*?
> > 
> > The regression is in both 0.10.5 and git.  It worked in 0.10.4, now it
> > doesn't work in either 0.10.5 or in git.
> > 
> 
> Huh, that's strange.

Yup, ignore that - 0.10.5 works, it's the git HEAD which fails.

> That was my setup:
> 
> qemu... -net channel,6666:tcp:localhost:1234,server,nowait -net user
> -net nic
> 
> Then "telnet localhost 1234" on the host and "telnet 10.0.2.4 6666" on
> the guest. Guest->host works in all cases, host->guest only with
> stable-0.10 for me.

I'm also going to take a further look at this this morning ...

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines.  Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages.  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/
See what it can do: http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/recipes.html

Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Richard W.M. Jones]

No this is wrong - the "0.10.5" in Fedora Rawhide is a strange
combination of qemu and KVM bits.  I just checked out the real
stable-0.10 branch from qemu git and tried that and it's OK.

Anyway ...  It doesn't work in qemu git, which concerns me.
When you said:

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:15:00AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> > That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
> > introduce the regression for that series).

What do you mean by "it is expected to introduce the regression"?  You
mean that guestfwd is supposed to not work?

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines.  Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages.  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/
See what it can do: http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/libguestfs/recipes.html

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> No this is wrong - the "0.10.5" in Fedora Rawhide is a strange
> combination of qemu and KVM bits.  I just checked out the real
> stable-0.10 branch from qemu git and tried that and it's OK.
> 
> Anyway ...  It doesn't work in qemu git, which concerns me.
> When you said:
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:15:00AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
>>> That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
>>> introduce the regression for that series).
> 
> What do you mean by "it is expected to introduce the regression"?  You
> mean that guestfwd is supposed to not work?

I mean that, now that we know there is a regression, it is most likely
that it comes from this patch which switches from the old "-net channel"
code to the wrapped version over the new syntax. But I definitely not
planned to break anything here. :)

Jan

-- 
Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT SE 2
Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Jan Kiszka wrote:
> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 06:20:06PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
>>> So this particular issue is (also?) a -stable regression? That should be
>>> easily bisectible.
>> This is what git-bisect said:
>>
>>   c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62 is first bad commit
>>   commit c92ef6a22d3c71538fcc48fb61ad353f7ba03b62
>>   Author: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
>>   Date:   Wed Jun 24 14:42:28 2009 +0200
>>   
>>       slirp: Rework external configuration interface
>>       
>>       With the internal IP configuration made more flexible, we can now
>>       enhance the user interface. This patch adds a number of new options to
>>       "-net user": net (address and mask), host, dhcpstart, dns and smbserver.
>>       It also renames "redir" to "hostfwd" and "channel" to "guestfwd" in
>>       order to (hopefully) clarify their meanings. The format of guestfwd is
>>       extended so that the user can define not only the port but also the
>>       virtual server's IP address the forwarding starts from.
>>       
>>       Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
>>       Signed-off-by: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
>>   
>>   :100644 100644 18c51190bf5ff20625ecaf3de45bd4aab4403044 f26c3f804ec5d234f76e14200e1188d21923a732 M	net.c
>>   :100644 100644 d1c1539e21caf9da16ef1cd68e29976d1abf576f da5b0ac6a503445431f966de37be0ed3440c6225 M	qemu-options.hx
>>   :040000 040000 e371676d54aea53190c3ab3fb36a2d9d8da97ded af6ed9e3cc7c650828315f836615ffdb829b02a3 M	slirp
>>
>> I have stared at the code for quite a while and I don't see the error.
> 
> That commit is not from stable, but from 0.11 (and it is expected to
> introduce the regression for that series). You are confusing me: Are you
> actually seeing a regression with *0.10.5*?

OK, regression is reproducible here with the 0.11 branch but not with
stable-0.10. Will look into the former later.

Jan

-- 
Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT SE 2
Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux

Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Anthony Liguori]

Jan Kiszka wrote:
>
>>  However in the new syntax that would be:
>>
>>   -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/some/path,server,nowait
>>
>> This gives errors like:
>>
>>   qemu: invalid parameter 'server,nowait' in 'vlan=0,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/tmp/libguestfshRZgxr/sock,server,nowait'
>>     
>
> Yep, that case does not fit into the syntax of comma-separated
> arguments. We need to find a new syntax within the given constraints.
> Need to think about it.
>   
The syntax I proposed early for -drive could address this.

-net user,name=foo,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666
-net.foo.guestfwd-arg unix:/some/path,server,nowait

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1012 bytes --]

Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Jan Kiszka wrote:
>>
>>>  However in the new syntax that would be:
>>>
>>>   -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/some/path,server,nowait
>>>
>>> This gives errors like:
>>>
>>>   qemu: invalid parameter 'server,nowait' in
>>> 'vlan=0,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-unix:/tmp/libguestfshRZgxr/sock,server,nowait'
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> Yep, that case does not fit into the syntax of comma-separated
>> arguments. We need to find a new syntax within the given constraints.
>> Need to think about it.
>>   
> The syntax I proposed early for -drive could address this.
> 
> -net user,name=foo,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666
> -net.foo.guestfwd-arg unix:/some/path,server,nowait
> 

I general yes, but I would rate this particular suggestion as a bad
example for intuitive argument splitting (guestfwd is useless without a
target like unix:/bla). If at all, we would have to push server and
nowait into the additional args. Still, this requires more thoughts.

Jan


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[Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Anthony Liguori]

Jan Kiszka wrote:
>> The syntax I proposed early for -drive could address this.
>>
>> -net user,name=foo,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666
>> -net.foo.guestfwd-arg unix:/some/path,server,nowait
>>
>>     
>
> I general yes, but I would rate this particular suggestion as a bad
> example for intuitive argument splitting (guestfwd is useless without a
> target like unix:/bla).

The throw an error.

-drive name=foo is also useless without a file= option.

>  If at all, we would have to push server and
> nowait into the additional args. Still, this requires more thoughts.
>   

Yes, the server and nowait options are unfortunate.  We should probably 
introduce mode=client|server and wait=on|off.   Best thing to do is 
completely swizzle the char device syntax.  Something like:

-char name=foo,type=unix,unix-path=/some/path,mode=server,wait=off

Then allow a char:<name> url to be used anywhere that takes traditional 
char device urls.

-net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-char:foo

> Jan
>
>   
Regards,

Anthony Liguori

Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Gerd Hoffmann]

On 07/22/09 01:41, Anthony Liguori wrote:

> completely swizzle the char device syntax. Something like:
>
> -char name=foo,type=unix,unix-path=/some/path,mode=server,wait=off
 >
> Then allow a char:<name> url to be used anywhere that takes traditional
> char device urls.
>
> -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-char:foo

Also: -serial char=foo

Very useful IMHO.

cheers,
   Gerd

Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: guestfwd option doesn't allow supplementary , server, nowait

[Jan Kiszka]

Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> On 07/22/09 01:41, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> 
>> completely swizzle the char device syntax. Something like:
>>
>> -char name=foo,type=unix,unix-path=/some/path,mode=server,wait=off
>>
>> Then allow a char:<name> url to be used anywhere that takes traditional
>> char device urls.
>>
>> -net user,guestfwd=tcp:10.0.2.4:6666-char:foo
> 
> Also: -serial char=foo
> 
> Very useful IMHO.
> 

Yeah, I'm also starting to like this direction.

Jan

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