From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47504 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PnUjh-0008KR-SY for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:30:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PnUdM-0006P3-U6 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:24:29 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:30045) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PnUdM-0006Ow-Ju for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:24:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:24:15 +0200 From: Gleb Natapov Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] KVM call minutes for Feb 8 Message-ID: <20110210112415.GB21681@redhat.com> References: <4D52A86A.1030407@codemonkey.ws> <4D52F20A.7070009@codemonkey.ws> <4D539800.3070802@codemonkey.ws> <4D53A39D.8000108@codemonkey.ws> <4D53BA43.2000708@codemonkey.ws> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-Id: qemu-devel.nongnu.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Peter Maydell Cc: Chris Wright , kvm@vger.kernel.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Markus Armbruster , Blue Swirl On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:38:53AM +0000, Peter Maydell wrote: > This is the system diagram for the Versatile Express: > http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0447d/I1007683.html > I don't know what you'd want to claim is a "northbridge" there. > Basically there's an FPGA with a pile of devices in it, > and there's a test chip with the core and some other devices in > it. But from a modelling perspective this is all completely > irrelevant because regardless of where the hardware designer > put the devices, they're just devices at a particular point in the > memory map and with a particular set of interrupt wiring and so > on. I don't see the point in modelling a concept that has no > user-visible effects and doesn't actually make the model any > clearer or simpler. > Exactly. This is really the same with x86. The fact that some company put several devices on the same chip and gave it commercial name shouldn't govern our design. > > > A machine today is basically the northbridge, southbridge, plus a bunch of > > default components to make the virtual hardware useful. > > This doesn't really correspond to ARM boards I've looked at, > by and large (for instance there's no mention of the word "northbridge" > in the whole 3700 page OMAP3 TRM). PCs may be best modelled > that way, sure, but I don't think you can cram everything into that mould. > Even on x86 this model is falling apart. Memory controller moves to cpu. PCI controller will follow. > >> If you mean that you want machines to be implemented under the > >> hood as a single huge "device" you can only have one of that spans > >> the entire memory map, well I guess that's an implementation > >> detail. But conceptually machines really do exist, and we definitely > >> still want users to be able to say "I want a beagle machine; I want > >> a versatile; I want an n900". > > > An n900 is a very specific hardware configuration that is best represented > > by some sort of configuration file vs. something hard coded in QEMU. > > Yes, that's the whole point -- "machine" == "specific hardware > configuration". > > That's not getting rid of "machine", it's just saying "we should have > some custom scripting language to define them rather than doing > them in C". You still want, fundamentally, to be able to say > qemu-system-arm -M machinename > +1 -- Gleb.