Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] migration: Don't activate block devices if using -S

["Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>]

* Kevin Wolf (kwolf@redhat.com) wrote:
> Am 10.04.2018 um 12:40 hat Dr. David Alan Gilbert geschrieben:
> > * Kevin Wolf (kwolf@redhat.com) wrote:
> > > Am 10.04.2018 um 10:45 hat Dr. David Alan Gilbert geschrieben:
> > > > * Kevin Wolf (kwolf@redhat.com) wrote:
> > > > > Am 10.04.2018 um 09:36 hat Jiri Denemark geschrieben:
> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 15:40:03 +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > > > > > > Am 09.04.2018 um 12:27 hat Dr. David Alan Gilbert geschrieben:
> > > > > > > > It's a fairly hairy failure case they had; if I remember correctly it's:
> > > > > > > >   a) Start migration
> > > > > > > >   b) Migration gets to completion point
> > > > > > > >   c) Destination is still paused
> > > > > > > >   d) Libvirt is restarted on the source
> > > > > > > >   e) Since libvirt was restarted it fails the migration (and hence knows
> > > > > > > >      the destination won't be started)
> > > > > > > >   f) It now tries to resume the qemu on the source
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > (f) fails because (b) caused the locks to be taken on the destination;
> > > > > > > > hence this patch stops doing that.  It's a case we don't really think
> > > > > > > > about - i.e. that the migration has actually completed and all the data
> > > > > > > > is on the destination, but libvirt decides for some other reason to
> > > > > > > > abandon migration.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If you do remember correctly, that scenario doesn't feel tricky at all.
> > > > > > > libvirt needs to quit the destination qemu, which will inactivate the
> > > > > > > images on the destination and release the lock, and then it can continue
> > > > > > > the source.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In fact, this is so straightforward that I wonder what else libvirt is
> > > > > > > doing. Is the destination qemu only shut down after trying to continue
> > > > > > > the source? That would be libvirt using the wrong order of steps.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > There's no connection between the two libvirt daemons in the case we're
> > > > > > talking about so they can't really synchronize the actions. The
> > > > > > destination daemon will kill the new QEMU process and the source will
> > > > > > resume the old one, but the order is completely random.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hm, okay...
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Yes it was a 'block-activate' that I'd wondered about.  One complication
> > > > > > > > is that if this now under the control of the management layer then we
> > > > > > > > should stop asserting when the block devices aren't in the expected
> > > > > > > > state and just cleanly fail the command instead.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Requiring an explicit 'block-activate' on the destination would be an
> > > > > > > incompatible change, so you would have to introduce a new option for
> > > > > > > that. 'block-inactivate' on the source feels a bit simpler.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As I said in another email, the explicit block-activate command could
> > > > > > depend on a migration capability similarly to how pre-switchover state
> > > > > > works.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yeah, that's exactly the thing that we wouldn't need if we could use
> > > > > 'block-inactivate' on the source instead. It feels a bit wrong to
> > > > > design a more involved QEMU interface around the libvirt internals,
> > > > 
> > > > It's not necessarily 'libvirt internals' - it's a case of them having to
> > > > cope with recovering from failures that happen around migration; it's
> > > > not an easy problem, and if they've got a way to stop both sides running
> > > > at the same time that's pretty important.
> > > 
> > > The 'libvirt internals' isn't that it needs an additional state where
> > > neither source nor destination QEMU own the images, but that it has to
> > > be between migration completion and image activation on the destination
> > > rather than between image inactivation on the source and migration
> > > completion. The latter would be much easier for qemu, but apparently it
> > > doesn't work for libvirt because of how it works internally.
> > 
> > I suspect this is actually a fundamental requirement to ensuring that we
> > don't end up with a QEMU running on both sides rather than how libvirt is
> > structured.
> 
> I don't think so. In theory, both options can provide the same. If
> anything, it's related specifically to the phases that Jirka described
> that libvirt uses to implement migration.
> 
> > > But as I said, I'd just implement both for symmetry and then management
> > > tools can pick whatever makes their life easier.
> > > 
> > > > > but
> > > > > as long as we implement both sides for symmetry and libvirt just happens
> > > > > to pick the destination side for now, I think it's okay.
> > > > > 
> > > > > By the way, are block devices the only thing that need to be explicitly
> > > > > activated? For example, what about qemu_announce_self() for network
> > > > > cards, do we need to delay that, too?
> > > > > 
> > > > > In any case, I think this patch needs to be reverted for 2.12 because
> > > > > it's wrong, and then we can create the proper solution in the 2.13
> > > > > timefrage.
> > > > 
> > > > what case does this break?
> > > > I'm a bit wary of reverting this, which fixes a known problem, on the
> > > > basis that it causes a theoretical problem.
> > > 
> > > It breaks the API. And the final design we're having in mind now is
> > > compatible with the old API, not with the new one exposed by this patch,
> > > so that switch would break the API again to get back to the old state.
> > > 
> > > Do you know all the scripts that people are using around QEMU? I don't,
> > > but I know that plenty of them exist, so I don't think we can declare
> > > this API breakage purely theoretical.
> > > 
> > > Yes, the patch fixes a known problem, but also a problem that is a rare
> > > corner case error that you can only hit with really bad timing. Do we
> > > really want to risk unconditionally breaking success cases for fixing a
> > > mostly theoretical corner case error path (with the failure mode that
> > > the guest is paused when it shouldn't be)?
> > 
> > Hmm; having chatted to Jiri I'm OK with reverting it, on the condition
> > that I actually understand how this alternative would work first.
> > 
> > I can't currently see how a block-inactivate would be used.
> > I also can't see how a block-activate unless it's also with the
> > change that you're asking to revert.
> > 
> > Can you explain the way you see it working?
> 
> The key is making the delayed activation of block devices (and probably
> delayed announcement of NICs? - you didn't answer that part) optional
> instead of making it the default.

NIC announcments are broken in similar but slightly different ways;  we
did have a series on list to help a while ago but it never got merged;
I'd like to keep that mess separate.

> We can use Jirka's suggestion of adding a migration capability that
> enables it, or I suppose a new option to -incoming could work, too. It
> doesn't really matter what the syntax is, but the management tool must
> request it explicitly.

A new capability is easy to gate the change in behaviour that this patch
added; I'll do that first thing for 2.13 (given today is rc3 tag it's
too late).

However, once we turn this on, to cope with the situation of a block user
that must start prior to the 'cont' when this behaviour is active, we'd
also need the 'block-activate' command.

Dave

> Kevin
--
Dr. David Alan Gilbert / dgilbert@redhat.com / Manchester, UK