From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D172C433DF for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 10:26:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 195B8206B6 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 10:26:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="Ub6XWDCb" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 195B8206B6 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:37030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3GcU-0003zL-9S for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 06:26:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43854) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Gbp-0003Tk-FL for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 06:25:21 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com ([205.139.110.120]:37690 helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Gbm-0003XN-GQ for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 06:25:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1596623116; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Wv1Sm59lILbjOslmVhx934AdwyDCqHFGtQYPmy0237k=; b=Ub6XWDCb/PM6GQPZqD8CS64u4Gae1v/2CfgImfkLiCkhjaKxFEzrUlJ0IJTP5qxqegm21l PXwiL7Wvo46rRppwbpaglg3P6C02hJvM3RbdkivQh33p/vdcZRFv1ZwYJEPb1PgPgKPTmD rBRMti1mWYgH3XNU7ohb9Bnl3RgNkhA= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-206-clUsBvQlMnuo-Ia6xld6dw-1; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 06:25:15 -0400 X-MC-Unique: clUsBvQlMnuo-Ia6xld6dw-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE969101C8A8; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 10:25:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gondolin (ovpn-113-4.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.113.4]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF981002388; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 10:25:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:24:57 +0200 From: Cornelia Huck To: "Daniel P. =?UTF-8?B?QmVycmFuZ8Op?=" Subject: Re: cleanups with long-term benefits Message-ID: <20200805122457.1acb4c8d.cohuck@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20200805100802.GG4127670@redhat.com> References: <87y2mvhg3k.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <87k0yeg7mc.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <6e5df5fc-94f8-ee8e-0c14-f56135de25e4@redhat.com> <87o8np5ysp.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <9f83eb93-5389-7aad-3031-0777de0c35b0@redhat.com> <20200805083949.GA3004@work-vm> <241436db-1aec-b804-314f-7893954e981b@redhat.com> <20200805090540.GC4127670@redhat.com> <20200805111155.25abfd26.cohuck@redhat.com> <20200805100802.GG4127670@redhat.com> Organization: Red Hat GmbH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.139.110.120; envelope-from=cohuck@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/05 00:45:55 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Eduardo Habkost , qemu-block@nongnu.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Markus Armbruster , Jason Wang , Juan Quintela , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Yuval Shaia , Gerd Hoffmann , Andrea Bolognani , =?UTF-8?B?TWFyYy1BbmRyw6k=?= Lureau , Paolo Bonzini , John Snow , Michael Roth , "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" , Stefan Berger Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:08:02 +0100 Daniel P. Berrang=C3=A9 wrote: > On Wed, Aug 05, 2020 at 11:11:55AM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 10:05:40 +0100 > > Daniel P. Berrang=C3=A9 wrote: > > =20 > > > On Wed, Aug 05, 2020 at 10:49:35AM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote: =20 > > > > On 05/08/20 10:39, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote: =20 > > > > >> Do you really use "git blame" that much? "git log -S" does more= or less > > > > >> the same function (in a different way) and is not affected as mu= ch by > > > > >> large code movement and transformation patches. =20 > > > > > > > > > > I use it a lot! Following stuff back to find where a change cam= e > > > > > from and then asking people. =20 > > > >=20 > > > > Indeed, but I use "git log -S" instead. :) Another possibility is = to > > > > just do "git log -p" and search for a relevant line of the code I'm > > > > "blaming". =20 > > >=20 > > > I used git blame alot too, but I don't think its a reason to not do t= he > > > cleanups. It is easy enough to just tell blame to use an earlier comm= it > > > if you see it displaying a refactor. I don't think such mild inconven= ience > > > should stop us making otherwise desirable code changes =20 > >=20 > > I don't think people argue that it should block changes; it it simply > > another thing to consider when weighing benefits vs. drawbacks. =20 >=20 > Actually, I'm saying that including "git blame" in such a weighing is > the mechanism for blocking otherwise beneficial change to the code. Or > to put it another way, I believe the value assigned to "git blame" in > such a comparison is miniscule / effectively zero. The only time > "git blame" should win is if the change in question is purely the > bike shed colour and has no technical benefits at all. If there's any > technical benefit to making the change it should always win. We > shouldn't preserve technical debt in the code merely to avoid an impact > on "git blame". I think we have to agree to disagree on this. Making "git blame" harder to use is annoying, and at least for me there's a threshold of usefulness for the code change that should be considered. (No judgment on the proposed change here; I don't have really have a horse in that race.)