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dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:54030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJ4D-00006E-AM for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:40:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35662) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJ3B-0006sY-A4 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:39:29 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([63.128.21.124]:55988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJ37-0003fr-QF for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:39:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1599730763; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=UJMJyRzObNSzgsm7nKTBhtIdlUcnnERbJ5o1q7a0ciI=; b=DeZp8Gh8p6cl+FugftWunwKCqm0B2RXcWnNJpBW/W0j5Wsc4Lwtt9IknBbW714cp219AOw BFtl9u7ITf0As+0o2ysFim6VBeYHraEb8e6XGnua8FJcp6ixDb1kAIzoCD+zM9g6lB5Wyj qucI3wJf32sIV3FRwXLBm07dbN5f2Pg= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-122-uRVKf8UVNO6_we5Y9MFxTQ-1; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:39:19 -0400 X-MC-Unique: uRVKf8UVNO6_we5Y9MFxTQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 890321008542; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:39:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (ovpn-112-4.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.112.4]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 347F65D9E8; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:39:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:39:10 +0100 From: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= To: Christian Schoenebeck Subject: Re: [RFC] QEMU as Xcode project on macOS Message-ID: <20200910093910.GG1083348@redhat.com> References: <2764135.D4k31Gy3CM@silver> <1695914.5EixHECA2G@silver> <20200910073710.GA1083348@redhat.com> <2421928.3WNMogbLRJ@silver> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2421928.3WNMogbLRJ@silver> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.6 (2020-07-11) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=berrange@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Received-SPF: pass client-ip=63.128.21.124; envelope-from=berrange@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 02:38:59 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= Cc: Peter Maydell , Thomas Huth , Liviu Ionescu , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, G 3 , Gerd Hoffmann , Paolo Bonzini , Richard Henderson Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:32:35AM +0200, Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > On Donnerstag, 10. September 2020 09:37:10 CEST Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > > I don't think we want to be adding more 3rd party deps as submodules, quite > > the opposite, we want to remove more submodules we currently have. > > > > Bundling every important dep we use as a submodule and providing build > > rules, means we're effectively re-inventing Homebrew / MacPorts and this is > > not a sane use of our time. > > Well, that's actually the whole point of this thread: saving developers' time. > And I think the submodule solution is the most sane one. > > Frankly if you compile FOSS software on Mac that asks you to "just" install > dependencies with Homebrew and co, it feels like you have 2 jobs: a software > developer, and a distribution maintainer. The difference to the submodule > though: a much larger amount of developers have to do that maintainer job > (manually resolving conflicts & crashes, rollbacks, etc.). I don't think it saves time. If you look at the bigger picture across multiple project it costs time. Every project that depends on glib or gtk or gnutls or etc reinvents the wheel figuring out a suitable recipe for bundling & building these dependencies. Worse is that they will all do it slightly differently, or use a variety of versions, and so users get a worse experiance too with different features available and different things broken. Projects like HomeBrew exist precisely to save developer time because these build steps can be figured out once, and every project can now just rely on the well maintained HomeBrew packages. Regards, Daniel -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|