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Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:51:53 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 14:51:52 +0100 From: Halil Pasic To: "Daniel P. =?UTF-8?B?QmVycmFuZ8Op?=" Subject: Re: [for-6.0 v5 00/13] Generalize memory encryption models Message-ID: <20201204145152.097bb217.pasic@linux.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <20201204132500.GI3056135@redhat.com> References: <20201204054415.579042-1-david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> <20201204140205.66e205da.cohuck@redhat.com> <20201204130727.GD2883@work-vm> <20201204132500.GI3056135@redhat.com> Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.11.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-12-04_04:2020-12-04, 2020-12-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012040075 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=148.163.158.5; envelope-from=pasic@linux.ibm.com; helo=mx0b-001b2d01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: pair@us.ibm.com, Marcelo Tosatti , brijesh.singh@amd.com, frankja@linux.ibm.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Cornelia Huck , Richard Henderson , "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Christian Borntraeger , qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, qemu-ppc@nongnu.org, David Gibson , thuth@redhat.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, david@redhat.com, rth@twiddle.net, mdroth@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Eduardo Habkost Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:25:00 +0000 Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 01:07:27PM +0000, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote: > > * Cornelia Huck (cohuck@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:06:50 +0100 > > > Christian Borntraeger wrote: > > > > > > > On 04.12.20 06:44, David Gibson wrote: > > > > > A number of hardware platforms are implementing mechanisms whereby the > > > > > hypervisor does not have unfettered access to guest memory, in order > > > > > to mitigate the security impact of a compromised hypervisor. > > > > > > > > > > AMD's SEV implements this with in-cpu memory encryption, and Intel has > > > > > its own memory encryption mechanism. POWER has an upcoming mechanism > > > > > to accomplish this in a different way, using a new memory protection > > > > > level plus a small trusted ultravisor. s390 also has a protected > > > > > execution environment. > > > > > > > > > > The current code (committed or draft) for these features has each > > > > > platform's version configured entirely differently. That doesn't seem > > > > > ideal for users, or particularly for management layers. > > > > > > > > > > AMD SEV introduces a notionally generic machine option > > > > > "machine-encryption", but it doesn't actually cover any cases other > > > > > than SEV. > > > > > > > > > > This series is a proposal to at least partially unify configuration > > > > > for these mechanisms, by renaming and generalizing AMD's > > > > > "memory-encryption" property. It is replaced by a > > > > > "securable-guest-memory" property pointing to a platform specific > > > > > > > > Can we do "securable-guest" ? > > > > s390x also protects registers and integrity. memory is only one piece > > > > of the puzzle and what we protect might differ from platform to > > > > platform. > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Even technologies that currently only do memory encryption may > > > be enhanced with more protections later. > > > > There's already SEV-ES patches onlist for this on the SEV side. > > > > > > > > Perhaps 'confidential guest' is actually what we need, since the > > marketing folks seem to have started labelling this whole idea > > 'confidential computing'. > > I think we shouldn't worry about the specific name too much, as it > won't be visible much outside QEMU and the internals of the immediate > layer above such as libvirt. What matters much more is that we have > documentation that clearly explains what the different levels of > protection are for each different architecture, and/or generation of > architecture. Mgmt apps / end users need understand exactly what > kind of unicorns they are being promised for a given configuration. > > You are probably right, but I still prefer descriptive names over misleading ones -- it helps with my cognitive process. Regards, Halil