From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27C68C32771 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 21:39:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50268 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odemU-00012N-AG for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:39:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54290) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odeHh-0002rd-4s for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:08:02 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.129.124]:41580) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odeHd-0004dq-P3 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:07:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1664399276; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=npgEWEPY9BCX1R4o0a9RLtWZiDXSw9D39L+ve4T9Zyw=; b=dkDcihqzqNL+Lob0EZIiM2DcYDqF57bf02LPxfZ8UdIrEwQpTMa03VlyHmm7XlgsREjzP0 XFJDUYKA/HhVU+cWDAdMOPAInjAexP6ArwayQWBwV43qxKgmvcIfZ8Yyg0m7jA4ngU7M54 iuHDuJkCT30i/jaCczDaEWCDv8O5owg= Received: from mail-wm1-f72.google.com (mail-wm1-f72.google.com [209.85.128.72]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id us-mta-581-T5rvPDTsP5Ov3ebmNhrdCQ-1; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:07:54 -0400 X-MC-Unique: T5rvPDTsP5Ov3ebmNhrdCQ-1 Received: by mail-wm1-f72.google.com with SMTP id n7-20020a1c2707000000b003a638356355so7604455wmn.2 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:07:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=npgEWEPY9BCX1R4o0a9RLtWZiDXSw9D39L+ve4T9Zyw=; b=tZsrxr1kC22o2WZOzoqOrqP57Mr+CyIMcHCWbeugasxEqU1hIZfTSJsg12R/yDnAQT gXkaJ6ALLcpi/gHbGPIs5fez0MF9v52Ha4vBmPdoBIE2xIFPY/ZmpvOB+i1H66WFkdKS HZ8AfxePJccNXl+FfmKk1Vo3YLO8GMx0868B9xXJOGMCisbDT0tIE4cBPpQN5IZ+PMlE h7tZ5yRQVVZHvqPcQCzkSiVPSdLuNiYILSzOKyXNsKNBhPBeZbaNAVWq0e4L5y20oeO9 kyy7geSxFn2obIkRiGmtoPGNb3+tboY6PACEE/0xG4TyyfdrXx71kbiDdvREeU1Cxu+7 5ZbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3/a7EsXW8JXnpI+BvypFkfjSSt58vRH0X2nwL4Jx8aThOIXHJ5 Et4+XVd8LYxdrMdNdiTfM8XiEEEu4Gp+wah8VtBpXIV21F+8jC0vS6zDJeXjbrtXv2PdzQZ2x9K iAU8baPnoJfncMts= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3c8e:b0:3b4:d224:ae27 with SMTP id bg14-20020a05600c3c8e00b003b4d224ae27mr8519114wmb.187.1664399273446; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7fSgu4d0eIus4sNzQpP7Nor2b5lX7KY5A7gY/YFeqcO4dB66Fh9XllT6QqV2/1Db2kgIRbIg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3c8e:b0:3b4:d224:ae27 with SMTP id bg14-20020a05600c3c8e00b003b4d224ae27mr8519097wmb.187.1664399273215; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from redhat.com ([2.55.17.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3-20020a05600c230300b003b4727d199asm2665587wmo.15.2022.09.28.14.07.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:07:48 -0400 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Michal =?iso-8859-1?Q?Such=E1nek?= Cc: Peter Maydell , Thomas Huth , Ani Sinha , Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= , John Snow , Laurent Vivier , Paolo Bonzini , imammedo@redhat.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: Why we should avoid new submodules if possible Message-ID: <20220928170234-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <59150265-44ed-0b14-df1c-42e3f2e97b7e@redhat.com> <20220628060210-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20220628062551-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20220628064831-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20220928204803.GS28810@kitsune.suse.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20220928204803.GS28810@kitsune.suse.cz> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.129.124; envelope-from=mst@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.082, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 10:48:03PM +0200, Michal Suchánek wrote: > Hello, > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 07:00:59AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > > > > git submodules are awkward basically because they are an automated wget. > > I don't think an explicit wget is much better ... but > > looks like I'm alone in this. Oh well. > > So it will be a weird dance of wget a tarball, unpack, generate > > ISO and run. God help you if you need to patch the test - it's > > wget all the way down. > > That's the problem - the submodules are not automated. They are > half-automated, and the rules for when the automation works and for when > the automation falls apart are not intellibible for the general Joe > Developer. > > You might spend a few days studying how they behave exactly, and then you > will know. But unless you will use them every day you will forget again, > because the rules do not lend themselves to some abstraction easily > understood by humans. > > Thanks > > Michal But why would learning a different tool be easier? -- MST