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Tsirkin" To: Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi , Kevin Wolf , Markus Armbruster , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Thomas Huth , Alex =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benn=E9e?= , Gerd Hoffmann , Mark Cave-Ayland , Philippe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mathieu-Daud=E9?= , Stefan Hajnoczi , Alexander Graf , Paolo Bonzini , Richard Henderson , Peter Maydell Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 3/3] docs: define policy forbidding use of AI code generators Message-ID: <20250626042340-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20250616092241.212898-1-armbru@redhat.com> <20250616092241.212898-4-armbru@redhat.com> <20250625150941-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20250625164902-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.129.124; envelope-from=mst@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 09:18:22AM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 04:49:17PM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 04:47:06PM -0400, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 4:39 PM Kevin Wolf wrote: > > > > > > > > Am 25.06.2025 um 21:16 hat Michael S. Tsirkin geschrieben: > > > > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 11:22:41AM +0200, Markus Armbruster wrote: > > > > > > From: Daniel P. Berrangé > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been an explosion of interest in so called AI code > > > > > > generators. Thus far though, this is has not been matched by a broadly > > > > > > accepted legal interpretation of the licensing implications for code > > > > > > generator outputs. While the vendors may claim there is no problem and > > > > > > a free choice of license is possible, they have an inherent conflict > > > > > > of interest in promoting this interpretation. More broadly there is, > > > > > > as yet, no broad consensus on the licensing implications of code > > > > > > generators trained on inputs under a wide variety of licenses > > > > > > > > > > > > The DCO requires contributors to assert they have the right to > > > > > > contribute under the designated project license. Given the lack of > > > > > > consensus on the licensing of AI code generator output, it is not > > > > > > considered credible to assert compliance with the DCO clause (b) or (c) > > > > > > where a patch includes such generated code. > > > > > > > > > > > > This patch thus defines a policy that the QEMU project will currently > > > > > > not accept contributions where use of AI code generators is either > > > > > > known, or suspected. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are early days of AI-assisted software development. The legal > > > > > > questions will be resolved eventually. The tools will mature, and we > > > > > > can expect some to become safely usable in free software projects. > > > > > > The policy we set now must be for today, and be open to revision. It's > > > > > > best to start strict and safe, then relax. > > > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile requests for exceptions can also be considered on a case by > > > > > > case basis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Daniel P. Berrangé > > > > > > Reviewed-by: Kevin Wolf > > > > > > Reviewed-by: Stefan Hajnoczi > > > > > > Reviewed-by: Alex Bennée > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Markus Armbruster > > > > > > > > > > Sorry about only reacting now, was AFK. > > > > > > > > > > So one usecase that to me seems entirely valid, is refactoring. > > > > > > > > > > For example, change a function prototype, or a structure, > > > > > and have an LLM update all callers. > > > > > > > > > > The only part of the patch that is expressive is the > > > > > actual change, the rest is a technicality and has IMHO nothing to do with > > > > > copyright. LLMs can just do it with no hassle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we soften this to only apply to expressive code? > > > > > > > > > > I feel a lot of cleanups would be enabled by this. > > > > > > > > Hasn't refactoring been a (deterministically) solved problem long before > > > > LLMs became capable to do the same with a good enough probability? > > > > > > It's easier to describe a desired refactoring to an LLM in natural > > > language than to figure out the regexes, semantic patches, etc needed > > > for traditional refactoring tools. > > > > > > Also, LLMs can perform higher level refactorings that might not be > > > supported by traditional tools. Things like "split this interface into > > > callbacks that take a Foo * argument and implement the callbacks for > > > both a.c and b.c". > > > > > > I think what Daniel mentioned is a good guide: if it's something that > > > you think it copyrightable, then avoid it. > > > > Right. Let's put that in the doc? > > In terms of mitigating risk I think it is better to avoid saying that > explicitly, and be seen to actively encourage acceptance of AI generated > code. The boundary between copyrightable and non-copyrightable code is > always pretty fuzzy and a matter of differing opinions. > > With regards, > Daniel Well fuzzy is not what this doc does... -- MST