From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3DA3C7115B for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:54:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRnbt-0008Sm-Tp; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:53:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRnbm-0008S7-T5 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:53:24 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRnbj-0002je-CP for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:53:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1750233197; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=1I4fDVF+EBeVQxWIO3b+eQ3mAzjAquOaxyCQPVLmBuI=; b=gwQoeSNfxz85NNHpnI8vo6JQUSctKajUfoH3BifWiQh4iNXzTn0JqPdKtbmuYI/58U/PXQ JfeDfauc6SgIHRptGBvX5JBt43fguvN7fnKTkuyuo0ruF5rG0HfX3phXPDvVQ4ecETG+ij 8B70uwFC15uiGA48ZQABNgQOfbXogMM= Received: from mail-wr1-f69.google.com (mail-wr1-f69.google.com [209.85.221.69]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-80-_FVZCVzxMLidhp5Bgt2ItQ-1; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:53:15 -0400 X-MC-Unique: _FVZCVzxMLidhp5Bgt2ItQ-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: _FVZCVzxMLidhp5Bgt2ItQ_1750233194 Received: by mail-wr1-f69.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3a50816ccc6so3618797f8f.1 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750233194; x=1750837994; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:content-language :from:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1I4fDVF+EBeVQxWIO3b+eQ3mAzjAquOaxyCQPVLmBuI=; b=B7k2nc3iZXGN98CbQRabxvSLE0jOyRt0g/SaV3ExlgRsA1TPKsQ76qwQp/K1EpuUGt KR2etafeCOzWckZYMfLqfFbSp3OfRQfojOIaIl68EdnXkvRC9R9T5cfNWNICPedlQAWb K74aav3qHqLYWYEOyxvrcSoLRxFv+Vc8epLIOSKAkh8ZhUjbJavJ2CxR30SA6TUt6s7n XwzB1QPToAsGkhbpW+5oReIcMAUWOi8ALRZgY2efERTRu5hartaYfVRQU5WeZX4NdwhS Zv/4CxYvTZzLaYxQTXFX8NlkuNspL08XzBYqNWYEp6p3Bun6+CqPQmH1qosyazmWH18E v/cg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV3JyNQE+6qv9wayVieJ4GYLa605nf6B5UpPi9hUBc1zyHdx1ftn8KThb0QtjYGc7bcwVLhnTWxsQv0@nongnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzrOWlQgmie7C1JH7kWz0hFSdFQCR/wFykVJh45ybk57qZ9aPop vgGLbqfQGfS5UJ28+2ihftF2iDM4tBt1rQxBwSJtrVW5guILPUjn1J15jf1aNEsI3dHkje6uQ+G NHHE8pii0ZA1dPmgdL53XGoItbMRpFxdrVCyBqRdD1DsesoGoe0V8Bvk8 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvYzX86lWJKK08b1h/Tgsxz3LT0ZgH/TRk6HUrOiyBqGIZhBvtOND9NRG097hb htOLOhgy8wIot0/4k7ZaTDxvZIigOneAlZG9CFiWV29aSr1WOEFk7P2bHkvsFuhofJnbFKkjb4V fRwbtG5GRUKFP4kVFLdXqNsAP3LpeGlkAKdllUYp30V6P+Q0lryn2myEhd+951ybmq3dXHaLLqx Goj/DgInOln1vXI6ATTygH7wtLeUg0BNwTqhBTPZE5fOynHplpsY0XMu5Yfo4HYsJjPRqg3G3WY eV/t61FYJ1vkqzSYmEVXMxIzKhs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2913:b0:3a4:e706:530f with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3a572e795f9mr12604888f8f.42.1750233193954; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:53:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGPfuX6A+GKShBwdML5xjelg6Q9xSNRZxMqylDqPRMK8WaAo364gkINfOCg+udiYcXFKOAq9g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2913:b0:3a4:e706:530f with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3a572e795f9mr12604870f8f.42.1750233193508; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.48] ([176.206.88.147]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3a568b7431esm16465614f8f.97.2025.06.18.00.53.12 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <23559c8d-149a-4ec6-adaa-fe0a8f8533f1@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 09:53:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Build platform guarantees, docs, tests, and snakes in the garden To: John Snow , qemu-devel , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_Berrang=C3=A9?= , Peter Maydell , Markus Armbruster , Akihiko Odaki References: From: Paolo Bonzini Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=pbonzini@redhat.com; keydata= xsEhBFRCcBIBDqDGsz4K0zZun3jh+U6Z9wNGLKQ0kSFyjN38gMqU1SfP+TUNQepFHb/Gc0E2 CxXPkIBTvYY+ZPkoTh5xF9oS1jqI8iRLzouzF8yXs3QjQIZ2SfuCxSVwlV65jotcjD2FTN04 hVopm9llFijNZpVIOGUTqzM4U55sdsCcZUluWM6x4HSOdw5F5Utxfp1wOjD/v92Lrax0hjiX DResHSt48q+8FrZzY+AUbkUS+Jm34qjswdrgsC5uxeVcLkBgWLmov2kMaMROT0YmFY6A3m1S P/kXmHDXxhe23gKb3dgwxUTpENDBGcfEzrzilWueOeUWiOcWuFOed/C3SyijBx3Av/lbCsHU Vx6pMycNTdzU1BuAroB+Y3mNEuW56Yd44jlInzG2UOwt9XjjdKkJZ1g0P9dwptwLEgTEd3Fo UdhAQyRXGYO8oROiuh+RZ1lXp6AQ4ZjoyH8WLfTLf5g1EKCTc4C1sy1vQSdzIRu3rBIjAvnC tGZADei1IExLqB3uzXKzZ1BZ+Z8hnt2og9hb7H0y8diYfEk2w3R7wEr+Ehk5NQsT2MPI2QBd wEv1/Aj1DgUHZAHzG1QN9S8wNWQ6K9DqHZTBnI1hUlkp22zCSHK/6FwUCuYp1zcAEQEAAc0j UGFvbG8gQm9uemluaSA8cGJvbnppbmlAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwU0EEwECACMFAlRCcBICGwMH CwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB+FRAMzTZpsbceDp9IIN6BIA0Ol7MoB15E 11kRz/ewzryFY54tQlMnd4xxfH8MTQ/mm9I482YoSwPMdcWFAKnUX6Yo30tbLiNB8hzaHeRj jx12K+ptqYbg+cevgOtbLAlL9kNgLLcsGqC2829jBCUTVeMSZDrzS97ole/YEez2qFpPnTV0 VrRWClWVfYh+JfzpXmgyhbkuwUxNFk421s4Ajp3d8nPPFUGgBG5HOxzkAm7xb1cjAuJ+oi/K CHfkuN+fLZl/u3E/fw7vvOESApLU5o0icVXeakfSz0LsygEnekDbxPnE5af/9FEkXJD5EoYG SEahaEtgNrR4qsyxyAGYgZlS70vkSSYJ+iT2rrwEiDlo31MzRo6Ba2FfHBSJ7lcYdPT7bbk9 AO3hlNMhNdUhoQv7M5HsnqZ6unvSHOKmReNaS9egAGdRN0/GPDWr9wroyJ65ZNQsHl9nXBqE AukZNr5oJO5vxrYiAuuTSd6UI/xFkjtkzltG3mw5ao2bBpk/V/YuePrJsnPFHG7NhizrxttB nTuOSCMo45pfHQ+XYd5K1+Cv/NzZFNWscm5htJ0HznY+oOsZvHTyGz3v91pn51dkRYN0otqr bQ4tlFFuVjArBZcapSIe6NV8C4cEiSTOwE0EVEJx7gEIAMeHcVzuv2bp9HlWDp6+RkZe+vtl KwAHplb/WH59j2wyG8V6i33+6MlSSJMOFnYUCCL77bucx9uImI5nX24PIlqT+zasVEEVGSRF m8dgkcJDB7Tps0IkNrUi4yof3B3shR+vMY3i3Ip0e41zKx0CvlAhMOo6otaHmcxr35sWq1Jk tLkbn3wG+fPQCVudJJECvVQ//UAthSSEklA50QtD2sBkmQ14ZryEyTHQ+E42K3j2IUmOLriF dNr9NvE1QGmGyIcbw2NIVEBOK/GWxkS5+dmxM2iD4Jdaf2nSn3jlHjEXoPwpMs0KZsgdU0pP JQzMUMwmB1wM8JxovFlPYrhNT9MAEQEAAcLBMwQYAQIACQUCVEJx7gIbDAAKCRB+FRAMzTZp sadRDqCctLmYICZu4GSnie4lKXl+HqlLanpVMOoFNnWs9oRP47MbE2wv8OaYh5pNR9VVgyhD OG0AU7oidG36OeUlrFDTfnPYYSF/mPCxHttosyt8O5kabxnIPv2URuAxDByz+iVbL+RjKaGM GDph56ZTswlx75nZVtIukqzLAQ5fa8OALSGum0cFi4ptZUOhDNz1onz61klD6z3MODi0sBZN Aj6guB2L/+2ZwElZEeRBERRd/uommlYuToAXfNRdUwrwl9gRMiA0WSyTb190zneRRDfpSK5d usXnM/O+kr3Dm+Ui+UioPf6wgbn3T0o6I5BhVhs4h4hWmIW7iNhPjX1iybXfmb1gAFfjtHfL xRUr64svXpyfJMScIQtBAm0ihWPltXkyITA92ngCmPdHa6M1hMh4RDX+Jf1fiWubzp1voAg0 JBrdmNZSQDz0iKmSrx8xkoXYfA3bgtFN8WJH2xgFL28XnqY4M6dLhJwV3z08tPSRqYFm4NMP dRsn0/7oymhneL8RthIvjDDQ5ktUjMe8LtHr70OZE/TT88qvEdhiIVUogHdo4qBrk41+gGQh b906Dudw5YhTJFU3nC6bbF2nrLlB4C/XSiH76ZvqzV0Z/cAMBo5NF/w= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=pbonzini@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -39 X-Spam_score: -4.0 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.89, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 6/5/25 21:35, John Snow wrote: > However, if we take as iron-clad our commitment to the build platform > promise -- *and* guarantee offline/tarball builds as well -- then Debian > 12 (as an example) only offers Sphinx 5.3.0 and not newer unless we > allow internet access to fetch Sphinx 6.2.1. This is not a problem for > developer workstations at all, but I am unclear on what problems this > may cause for tarball releases and downstream offline/isolated/ > reproducible builds, if any. > > In this case, we can (probably) "fix" the issue by continuing to allow > older Sphinx while preferring a newer Sphinx version when it is missing, > but then we lose the ability to make code cleanups and drop a lot of > back-compat crud. If memory serves, there were other issues recently > where older versions of Sphinx behaved differently from newer versions, > causing intermittent failures that were hard to track down. The *ideal* solution would be to: - accept: 4.3.2 or newer, which is what Ubuntu 22.04 has - install: 6.2.1, which is what supports Python 3.13 This lets all supported distros build documentation if they use the default Python runtime. It would still require a couple hacks in compat.py: SOURCE_LOCATION_FIX and nested_parse_with_titles(). I am not sure however whether to count the latter, for two reasons. First, it has this: # necessary so that the child nodes get the right source/line set content_node.document = directive.state.document so it is not a pure compatibility hack. Second, and opposite, currently none of the uses of nested_parse_with_titles() go through compat.py's version, therefore it probably can be removed altogether. That leaves only SOURCE_LOCATION_FIX. As an aside, if the compat.py hacks survive, I would add comments to document which distros need the hacks. > What I'd like to know is: what precisely are our options in this > scenario? Do we consider it acceptable for some platforms to be unable > to build docs offline? Certainly for platforms not using the default Python runtime, which right now is only SLES. For others... > How highly do we value the ability to locally > build docs for any given release? ... I think I value this a bit higher than Markus, but not really because of offline builds. Rather, keeping the "accepted" key lower (i.e. supporting the packaged sphinx on a wide range of distros) makes it easier to bump the "installed" key when needed, as in this failure to run 5.3.0 under Python 3.13. This time there was a version that works on both the oldest and newest Python that we support, but there may not always be one because sphinx is all too happy at dropping support for EOL'd versions of Python. Paolo > Before I throw my weight behind any given option, I just want to know > what we consider our non-negotiable obligations to be. > > Thanks, > --js >