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[176.131.211.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q18-20020a170906a09200b0099b8234a9fesm7903371ejy.1.2023.09.12.23.33.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3cc2c925-d2a8-36f4-28b6-db391b5bbf38@linaro.org> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:33:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Subject: Re: [PATCH] hw/i386/pc_piix: Mark the machine types from version 1.4 to 1.7 as deprecated Content-Language: en-US To: Thomas Huth , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= , qemu-discuss Cc: Eduardo Habkost , Paolo Bonzini , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" References: <20220117191639.278497-1-thuth@redhat.com> <44b4ce3f-030a-993a-b959-e8e722c7cee4@redhat.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=c3=a9?= In-Reply-To: <44b4ce3f-030a-993a-b959-e8e722c7cee4@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::530; envelope-from=philmd@linaro.org; helo=mail-ed1-x530.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.473, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 18/1/22 09:49, Thomas Huth wrote: > On 17/01/2022 21.12, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 08:16:39PM +0100, Thomas Huth wrote: >>> The list of machine types grows larger and larger each release ... and >>> it is unlikely that many people still use the very old ones for live >>> migration. QEMU v1.7 has been released more than 8 years ago, so most >>> people should have updated their machines to a newer version in those >>> 8 years at least once. Thus let's mark the very old 1.x machine types >>> as deprecated now. >> >> What criteria did you use for picking v1.7 as the end point ? > > I picked everything starting with a "1." this time ;-) > > No, honestly, since we don't have a deprecation policy in place yet, > there was no real good criteria around this time. For the machine types > < 1.3 there was a bug with migration, so these machine types could not > be used for reliable migration anymore anyway. But for the newer machine > types, we likely have to decide by other means indeed. > >> I'm fine with the idea of aging out machine types, but I'd like us >> to explain the criteria we use for this, so that we can set clear >> expectations for users. I'm not a fan of adhoc decisions that have >> different impact every time we randomly decide to apply them. >> >> A simple rule could be time based - eg we could say >> >>    "we'll keep machine type versions for 5 years or 15 releases." >> >> one factor is how long our downstream consumers have been keeping >> machines around for. >> >> In RHEL-9 for example, the oldest machine is "pc-i440fx-rhel7.6.0" >> which IIUC is derived from QEMU 2.12.0. RHEL-9 is likely to rebase >> QEMU quite a few times over the coming years, so that 2.12.0 version >> sets an example baseline for how long machines might need to live for. >> That's 4 years this April, and could potentially be 6-7 years by the >> time RHEL-9 stops rebasing QEMU. > > Yeah, 5 years still seemed a little bit short to me, that's one of the > reasons why I did not add more machine types in my patch here. I think > with 7 or 8 years, we should be on the safe side. > > Any other opinions? And if we agree on an amount of years, where should > we document this? At the top of docs/about/deprecated.rst? I suppose x86 being the oldest, x86 maintainers have to comment, but 5 years should be enough from sysadmins to migrate their VMs, isn't it? (No need to migrate from 1 -> 8, they can do 1 -> 3 -> 5 -> 8, right?) Anyhow you are right, better is to clearly state that in deprecated.rst, at least to start and widen the discussion.