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(p200300cbc733a800ea78e75419955390.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c733:a800:ea78:e754:1995:5390]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-42f57dd2ea2sm126581155e9.3.2024.10.01.01.54.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Oct 2024 01:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44a9f7a0-d838-40e5-ad91-6c1baf33da21@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 10:54:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 00/14] s390x: virtio-mem support To: Halil Pasic Cc: Cornelia Huck , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Janosch Frank , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, Paolo Bonzini , Thomas Huth , Christian Borntraeger , Eric Farman , Richard Henderson , Ilya Leoshkevich , Heiko Carstens References: <20240910175809.2135596-1-david@redhat.com> <4429b29a-a022-4507-a358-1a16b5032395@linux.ibm.com> <9dc58bde-7979-4ffb-9ba7-a501d9fcc416@redhat.com> <20240911100415-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <871q1qurol.fsf@redhat.com> <20240927202019.6d721171.pasic@linux.ibm.com> <7aea51e4-5514-44e7-9da0-cf6aa7a31439@redhat.com> <20240930234912.25acd03b.pasic@linux.ibm.com> Content-Language: en-US From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20240930234912.25acd03b.pasic@linux.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=david@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.144, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 30.09.24 23:49, Halil Pasic wrote: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 20:29:19 +0200 > David Hildenbrand wrote: > >> On 27.09.24 20:20, Halil Pasic wrote: >>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:09:27 +0200 >>> David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> >>>>> Anyway, if we want to proceed with the gitlab project, would it make >>>>> sense to create an org for it, so that it doesn't look like David's >>>>> personal project? >>> >>> Frankly, I would prefer making Documentation/virt/kvm/s390/s390-diag.rst >>> the authoritative documentation on DIAGs. >>> >>> My train of thought is DIAG 500 is a KVM thing, and KVM is a linux >>> kernel thing, so it just feels right for the documentatio to >>> live within the linux source tree. >> >> QEMU/TCG is the proof that KVM is not necessarily involved. >> >> Are you sure that no other OS out there besides Linux implements virtio >> on s390x, or would want to implement it? :) >> > > As Christian has pointed out in another thread DIAG 500 is documented > as the KVM hypervisor call, and that made me argue it is a KVM thing. > > You are right KVM is not necessarily involved, and neither is QEMU. For > me it is not about the components involved in the visualization, but > about the people, projects and governance. > > IMHO this is basically extending the s390 architecture. We are guaranteed > to not collide with the Architecture because DIAG 500 is reserved for > KVM as a project I guess. That's my understanding. I assume because the CCW virtio machine started out as KVM-only, documenting that it is "KVM ONLY" may be because of historical reasons. > >>> >>> I may have missed some of the discussion: what were the benefits >>> of having this in its separate project/repository? >> >> Having it independent of the implementation. >> > > That is a valid point. But IMHO the benefit of having this independent, > does not justify the churn of having a separate project with its > own governance, and communication infrastructure. And I suppose for an > open(?) specification, one would need those things. I don't see the need to bring in all that bureaucracy. The original idea was simple: if QEMU/TCG or QEMU/KVM implement a hypercall (IOW: it was acked by the s390x maintainers), we document it somewhere. Implementing something in QEMU and then modifying a KVM document in the kernel tree sounded odd. It is a valid question to ask: what if any other hypervisor (cloud-hypervisor etc.) would want to implement a custom diag500 hypercall, and who would ack it. But I don't really think that we would have to sort this out this at this point in time. > > No strong opinions though. If Christian, Janosch and Claudio are in > favor of a separate "Specifications for open-source virtualization on > s390x (IBM z Systems)" project, I'm fine with it as well. I'm more than happy if we don't need that. As said, I'm happy to document wherever people tell me to document. 4 years ago we thought that having a separate repository was a good idea, maybe it is no longer. In that case, s390x mainters please let me know what to do :) -- Cheers, David / dhildenb