From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2779C433E2 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:15:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E6C321941 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:15:22 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=crudebyte.com header.i=@crudebyte.com header.b="GE9Ybbt9" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0E6C321941 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=crudebyte.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:54976 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJbt-0000Ew-0a for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 06:15:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJb2-0007Ow-Rd for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 06:14:29 -0400 Received: from lizzy.crudebyte.com ([91.194.90.13]:48439) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGJb0-0000HK-TA for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 06:14:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=crudebyte.com; s=lizzy; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=9UEUxjh3BqBUwq3V7SisMmIjEgjHU2phEw6uPPRbmFc=; b=GE9Ybbt9+8npQHlHdlV1dAH1Ql vnEgHLoikrFXa02eaZquOU1XkihSI5Qq4sKU5iQuamolxqO7C3eONzB57mu09NnnaUzoQp4kscJAq 3YSM8CjlKj+yoVYMIOsf457AMZHTjh2qq8hfKPtOJVwWmICdNYsw4SGpxhiYoaoTyrdEkAxQAydNN pwBSluYw5l6UkGqXkOFtSvLu1sEeGUpgcyYkyL0nI+N055fGoDsZiboS9w9NV9t7085Fyy5aAZlZp K/GYnqptJ19EzfQcGze2H15yAoAFXgyz0c5epeMuhAAyzAoozHhVb3wHOLZHbvU0FE//hP2ydv97k 1VdrrVtg==; From: Christian Schoenebeck To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Daniel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= Cc: Peter Maydell , Thomas Huth , Liviu Ionescu , G 3 , Gerd Hoffmann , Paolo Bonzini , Richard Henderson Subject: Re: [RFC] QEMU as Xcode project on macOS Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 12:14:23 +0200 Message-ID: <4878996.4JzhbN1UZ4@silver> In-Reply-To: <20200910093910.GG1083348@redhat.com> References: <2764135.D4k31Gy3CM@silver> <2421928.3WNMogbLRJ@silver> <20200910093910.GG1083348@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=91.194.90.13; envelope-from=qemu_oss@crudebyte.com; helo=lizzy.crudebyte.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 05:32:37 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Donnerstag, 10. September 2020 11:39:10 CEST Daniel P. Berrang=E9 wrote: > > Well, that's actually the whole point of this thread: saving developers' > > time. And I think the submodule solution is the most sane one. > >=20 > > Frankly if you compile FOSS software on Mac that asks you to "just" > > install > > dependencies with Homebrew and co, it feels like you have 2 jobs: a > > software developer, and a distribution maintainer. The difference to the > > submodule though: a much larger amount of developers have to do that > > maintainer job (manually resolving conflicts & crashes, rollbacks, etc.= ). >=20 > I don't think it saves time. If you look at the bigger picture across > multiple project it costs time. Every project that depends on glib or > gtk or gnutls or etc reinvents the wheel figuring out a suitable > recipe for bundling & building these dependencies. Worse is that they > will all do it slightly differently, or use a variety of versions, and > so users get a worse experiance too with different features available > and different things broken. Projects like HomeBrew exist precisely to > save developer time because these build steps can be figured out once, > and every project can now just rely on the well maintained HomeBrew > packages. That only works for consumers at most. =46or developers it is actually the complete opposite on Mac: you start to= =20 install things from somewhere, then you need to install something from=20 somewhere else, manually build & install stuff, and you end up in conflicts= =20 and misbehaviours all over the place. The way to go for devs on Mac is: 3rd party libs should not be installed in= to=20 global space, rather be built & linked either as dynamic frameworks (includ= ing=20 assets) or as static libs. Then apps always run with the precise version an= d=20 flags of libs they were tested with and never conflict with another app's=20 version/config of libs. Best regards, Christian Schoenebeck