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From: Mitch Bradley <wmb@firmworks.com>
To: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>
Cc: devicetree-discuss@ozlabs.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Hollis Blanchard <hollisb@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:33:59 -1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <499479A7.5090902@firmworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fxijwkpn.fsf@pike.pond.sub.org>

>
> We want a machine configuration: a tree describing configurable devices
> and their configurable properties.
>   


Regarding configurable devices in Open Firmware:

The baseline usage model for configurable devices was that the firmware 
is responsible for establishing a consistent system configuration, 
possibly based on user-modifiable variables in non-volatile storage.  It 
reports the actual configuration to the OS via the device tree.

For cases where the choice needs to deferred until later, or perhaps 
changed dynamically, a device tree property reports the set of 
possibilities.  In cases where the firmware has already set up the 
devices, it reports the current choice via another property.

The device tree hierarchy serves as the "name space" framework for these 
properties.  Obviously, you need to specify the device for which the 
choice set applies.  The device tree is a coherent naming model for that 
purpose.

Obviously the hierarchical model has problems for highly-configurable 
chipsets in which a setting can result in a wholesale rearrangement of 
the overall connectivity, but it seems to me that board-design 
constraints usually make that a non-problem. The wiring on a given board 
generally forces the choice at that level, so the firmware for that 
board need not report that as a configurable choice.
> For PowerPC, we also want a machine description: a tree describing those
> devices and properties that the kernel can't easily and safely probe.
>   

The gist of the above sentence seems to presuppose that, if the kernel 
can probe, it should.  That's not the only way of thinking about the 
problem.  As a practical matter, the firmware usually needs to do a fair 
amount of probing too, in order to locate the console display and the 
boot devices.  In the process, the firmware usually discovers pretty 
much the entire machine configuration.  If the OS has to repeat the 
process from scratch, it slows down the boot process.  So the IEEE1275 
design supports the model where the firmware can do all the probing, 
handing off a complete system description to the OS.  The OS startup 
code can walk the tree and attach device drivers for what it finds, then 
arrange to handle insert/remove events from hot-pluggable buses.

  reply	other threads:[~2009-02-12 19:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-02-11 15:40 [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 16:31 ` Ian Jackson
2009-02-11 17:43   ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 18:57   ` Hollis Blanchard
2009-02-12  3:50     ` David Gibson
2009-02-11 18:50 ` Hollis Blanchard
2009-02-11 19:34   ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-12  4:01   ` David Gibson
2009-02-12 10:26     ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 12:49       ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 16:46         ` M. Warner Losh
2009-02-12 18:29           ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 23:58             ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 11:19               ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13  1:05             ` David Gibson
2009-02-12 23:35           ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 23:58             ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13  0:32               ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13  0:47                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-02-13  1:46                 ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 14:32                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2009-02-13  0:05             ` M. Warner Losh
2009-02-12 17:52       ` Hollis Blanchard
2009-02-12 18:53         ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 19:33           ` Mitch Bradley [this message]
2009-02-13  0:59             ` David Gibson
2009-02-13  1:00         ` David Gibson
2009-02-13  0:43       ` David Gibson
2009-02-13  2:11         ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13  2:17           ` David Gibson
2009-02-13  2:45             ` DTS syntax and DTC patches (was: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data) Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13  2:51               ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 20:04           ` [Qemu-devel] [RFC] Machine description as data Jon Loeliger
2009-02-13 20:15             ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-13 20:19               ` Jon Loeliger
2009-02-12 10:26   ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-12 12:36     ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2009-02-12 16:07     ` Paul Brook
2009-02-12 17:17       ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-12 18:09       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2009-02-13  0:37     ` David Gibson
2009-02-13 11:26       ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 12:06         ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 12:48           ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 13:33             ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 14:13               ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 14:25                 ` Paul Brook
2009-02-13 15:47                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-02-13 18:36                 ` Mitch Bradley
2009-02-13 19:49                   ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-13 19:51                     ` Mitch Bradley
2009-02-16  3:42         ` David Gibson
2009-02-16 16:39           ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17  3:29             ` David Gibson
2009-02-17  7:54               ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17 17:44               ` Paul Brook
2009-02-18  8:36                 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-11 19:01 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-11 19:36   ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-11 19:56     ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-12 10:25       ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-16 16:22 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 2 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-17 17:32   ` Paul Brook
2009-02-18  8:42     ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 2 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 10:29 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 13:53   ` Paul Brook
2009-02-19 14:55     ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 15:03       ` Paul Brook
2009-02-19 14:36   ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-19 15:00     ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 14:49   ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-23 17:38     ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 18:58       ` Anthony Liguori
2009-02-24  9:08         ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-19 16:40   ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Blue Swirl
2009-02-19 18:30     ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 3 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-20 18:14       ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-20 18:20         ` Paul Brook
2009-02-23 12:00           ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 12:18         ` Markus Armbruster
2009-02-23 18:00 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 4 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-02-24 20:06   ` Blue Swirl
2009-02-25 12:13     ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 4 Markus Armbruster
2009-02-25 20:11       ` Blue Swirl
2009-03-03 17:46 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 5 (was: [RFC] Machine description as data) Markus Armbruster
2009-03-12 18:43 ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 6 " Markus Armbruster
2009-03-17 16:06   ` [Qemu-devel] Machine description as data prototype, take 6 Paul Brook
2009-03-17 17:32     ` Markus Armbruster
2009-03-23 15:50 ` [Qemu-devel] Re: [RFC] Machine description as data Markus Armbruster
2009-03-23 15:53   ` Markus Armbruster
2009-03-31  9:16 ` Markus Armbruster
2009-04-17 16:04 ` Markus Armbruster

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