qemu-devel.nongnu.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>
To: Kevin Wolf <kwolf@redhat.com>
Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@linux.vnet.ibm.com>, qemu-devel@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: [RFC] qed: Add QEMU Enhanced Disk format
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 07:45:31 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C84E26B.4030207@codemonkey.ws> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4C84C213.4060005@redhat.com>

On 09/06/2010 05:27 AM, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> Okay, so before I actually look at the patch longer than a couple of
> seconds let me just ask the obvious question...
>
> Before inventing yet another image format, you certainly have checked
> the existing ones.

Obviously, yes.

Here are the issues:

cow.c: it's cow of an otherwise sparse file.  An important reason for 
implementing a format is the ability to copy (or scp) an image without 
special tools.

qcow2.c: the refcount, cow cluster, and compression make an 
implementation seeking integrity and performance challenging.

vmdk.c: we feel it's important for qemu to have a block format with a 
gpl friendly specification that we have a say in

vhd/vpc.c: same as vmdk with the addition that the OSP is known to not 
be gpl friendly

vdi.c: uses a bitmap instead of a two level table.  An advantage of a 
two level table is that it allows image resize without much fuss.

qcow.c: it lacks extensibility and compression means that there's no 
guarantee that blocks are a fixed size.  This makes it very difficult to 
implement a high performance block format without having two separate 
code paths.

>   Except for not implementing compression and
> encryption this looks a lot like qcow1 to me. I see that you even
> retained the two-level cluster tables.
>
> So if we ignore the implementation for a moment and just compare the
> formats, what's the crucial difference between qcow1 and qed that I'm
> missing? And if it's not qcow1, why not improving our support for
> another existing format like VHD?
>    

Block formats are easy to get wrong.  QED is an existence proof that 
given the right constraints, we can build a full asynchronous, high 
performance image format with proper data integrity.

You could get to QED by incrementally improving qcow but you'd have to 
break the format to make it extensible and disable support for 
compression.  But at that point, why not just make a new format since 
you're breaking compatibility.

You would have to fully rewrite the code so what's the point of keeping 
the format?

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

> Kevin
>
>    

  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-09-06 12:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 131+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-09-06 10:04 [Qemu-devel] [RFC] qed: Add QEMU Enhanced Disk format Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-06 10:25 ` Alexander Graf
2010-09-06 10:31   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-06 14:21   ` Luca Tettamanti
2010-09-06 14:24     ` Alexander Graf
2010-09-06 16:27       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-06 10:27 ` [Qemu-devel] " Kevin Wolf
2010-09-06 12:40   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-06 12:57     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-06 13:02       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-06 14:10       ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-06 16:45         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-06 12:45   ` Anthony Liguori [this message]
2010-09-10 23:49     ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-09-06 11:18 ` [Qemu-devel] " Daniel P. Berrange
2010-09-06 12:52   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-06 13:35     ` Daniel P. Berrange
2010-09-06 16:38       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-06 13:06 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-07 14:51   ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-07 15:40     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-07 16:09       ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-07 16:25         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-07 22:27           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08  8:23             ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-08  8:41               ` Alexander Graf
2010-09-08  8:53                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-08 11:15                   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-08 15:38                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-08 16:30                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08 20:23                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-08 20:28                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-09  2:35                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-09  6:24                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-09 21:01                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 11:15                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-09  6:53                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 21:22                     ` Jamie Lokier
2010-09-14 10:46                       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-14 11:08                         ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-14 12:54                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08 12:55                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-09  6:30                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-08 12:48               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08 13:20                 ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-08 13:26                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08 13:46                     ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-09  6:45                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-09  6:48                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-09 12:49                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-09 16:48                     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2010-09-09 17:02                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-09 20:56                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 10:53                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 11:14                     ` [Qemu-devel] " Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 11:25                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 11:33                         ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-10 11:43                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:22                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 13:48                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 15:02                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 15:18                                   ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 15:53                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 16:05                                       ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 17:10                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 17:44                                           ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 17:46                                           ` Miguel Di Ciurcio Filho
2010-09-10 14:02                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:47                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 14:05                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 14:12                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 14:24                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:16                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 14:06                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 11:43                       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-10 12:06                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:28                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 12:12                         ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 12:35                           ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-10 12:47                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:10                               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-10 13:19                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:39                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 13:52                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 13:56                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 13:48                             ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 13:14                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 13:47                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 14:56                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 15:49                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 17:07                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-10 17:42                                 ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-10 19:33                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-13 10:41                                     ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-12 13:24                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-12 15:13                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-12 15:56                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-12 17:09                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-12 17:51                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-12 20:18                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-13  9:24                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-13 11:28                                         ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-13 11:34                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-13 11:48                                             ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-13 13:19                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-13 13:12                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-13 11:03                                       ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-13 13:07                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-13 13:24                                           ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-07 16:12     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-07 21:35       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-07 22:29         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-07 22:40           ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-08 15:07     ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-09  6:59       ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-09 17:43         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-09 20:46           ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-09-10 11:22           ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-10 11:29             ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-10 11:37               ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-07 13:58 ` Avi Kivity
2010-09-07 19:25 ` Blue Swirl
2010-09-07 20:41   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08  7:48     ` Kevin Wolf
2010-09-08 15:37   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-09-08 18:24     ` Blue Swirl
2010-09-08 18:35       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-08 18:56         ` Blue Swirl
2010-09-08 19:19           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-09-15 21:01 ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-09-15 21:12   ` Anthony Liguori

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=4C84E26B.4030207@codemonkey.ws \
    --to=anthony@codemonkey.ws \
    --cc=kwolf@redhat.com \
    --cc=qemu-devel@nongnu.org \
    --cc=stefanha@linux.vnet.ibm.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).