From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39139 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PLdDk-0002xt-Cx for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:54:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PLdDi-00059A-JN for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:54:48 -0500 Received: from mail.uni-paderborn.de ([131.234.142.9]:25231) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PLdDi-00058p-7F for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:54:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] CFP: 1st International QEMU Users Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:54:28 +0100 References: <30B7D3FB-2015-46CC-9FE6-C4C593A85F6C@suse.de> <4CEE3ADF.3090509@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: <4CEE78A4.1060201@acm.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: wolfgang mueller List-Id: qemu-devel.nongnu.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Alexander Graf Cc: QEMU-devel Developers , Wolfgang Mueller , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_P=E9trot?= Alexander, the people we are addressing and we would like to bring together is from the QEMU emulation community. We are interested in running different ISAs mainly under Linux and Windows versions. There is a huge additional interest from industry for this part to QEMU for embedded systems/SW development. The focus we have chosen for the DATE conference is SystemC integration with QEMU emulation since the embedded systems and SystemC community meets at DATE so that we expect several people from them to attend. However, as already written, we basically failed to find any indication for contact point for the emulation community. Any pointers are highly appreciated. Virtualization is not of any interest in that workshop as there if course already exists the KVM forum you refered to. I understood from the available information and contacts that there is a common consensus that the QEMU virtualization community is denoted as "KVM community" and not as "QEMU community" which also brings the difference to the point, right? My understanding so far is that "QEMU community" refers mainly to the software emulation people part. PS: I have no idea about the number of people who are on the qemu-devel@nongnu.org list we are cc'ing. I hope there are not too many and that they are interested in our communication. Otherwise, I apologize. w. On 25.11.2010 12:03, Alexander Graf wrote: > Wolfgang, > > On 25.11.2010, at 11:30, wolfgang mueller wrote: > >> Dear Alexander Graf, >> thank you for contacting me. >> I hope that I am right when I understand your below email as a >> complaint that we have not contacted you before organizing >> this event. > > The complaint is mostly that you have not approached the community, > yes :). > >> First of all, we understand our event not as an official QEMU event >> nor have we stated this anywhere or that that we are the >> owners of QEMU. >> >> Let me explain about the background of the Workshop. >> We as QEMU users, occasionally meet other QEMU users at conferences >> and we observed that the number was significantly growing >> during the last years (thanks to the excellent work of the >> developers). We googled for any contacts to other QEMU users and >> did neither found any workshop nor any mailing list or anything >> similar we could contact. The only thing we found as a main contact >> was Fabrice Bellard and a huge set of developers (~3000). We saw >> Fabrice Bellard as the "owner" and contacted him. Unfortunately >> he rejected as he has no longer interest in QEMU. > > I guess we should really remove most traces of Fabrice if he isn't > even helpful enough to direct you to the mailing list. The maintainer > situation should be explained in the MAINTAINERS file in the qemu > source tree. Apparently the last attempt to redo that file and make it > contain actual current information failed. Sigh. > > There is a group of people with commit rights to the source tree. Each > of them have special and in general different fields of interest. > There are also several submaintainers who keep track of subsystems, > but don't have commit rights and route everything through the few > people with commit rights. > > In general, it's similar to the Linux kernel, but with a schizophrenic > Linus. > > So the "right thing" to do would have been to send a mail to the > qemu-devel mailing list, asking for feedback. The right people > definitely do read the list. > >> As we did not find any current "leader" or dedicated leading group >> beyond the web site, we decided to move on since we were interested >> to get the QEMU users together to join efforts and exchange ideas and >> developments (The alternative would have been to contact >> all over 3000 QEMU developers and to discuss with them the >> organization of such a event. However, from the first idea to the >> possibility to get it accepted in the framework of the DATE >> conference were very few weeks so that we did not see it as a viable >> alternative). >> >> I now understand that we obviously missed your role in that community >> as the leader or one of the leaders and qemu-devel@nongnu.org >> as the community or part of the community. Therefore, we apologize >> that we did not contact you or qemu-devel@nongnu.org. > > Don't worry about me. I feel myself in general rather representing > minorities in qemu. The closest to a "leader" position in qemu these > days is probably Anthony Liguori. CC'ing him. > >> >> However, currently though already very late, we could offer you that >> you can join and and we can list you as a third organizer. >> But you have to make an immediate decision as the DATE program will >> go to print in about 10 days. Otherwise you will be only >> listed on the web. >> >> Additionally, we are still looking for a person who is giving a >> general 45-minute QEMU tutorial/overview. As we were enforce by the >> hosting DATE conference to put a name there, please just take it as a >> placeholder for the worst case that we do not find anybody else. >> Are you interested or anybody from qemu-devel@nongnu.org? > > This is exactly the reason I approached you sceptic on the whole > thing. Qemu is _very_ diverse. It ranges from prototyping non-existing > hardware over user-space only emulation to virtualization. Each of the > different aspects have their very own issues and traction. The group > that's the most active currently is the virtualization crowd. Which > target audience are you going for? > >> >> Finally, I actually do not share your concerns that people register >> to get more information "about command line switches to virtualize >> on x86 hardware". I really would expect that people read the >> programme before they register. However, maybe you know the community >> better than I do. > > After checking on the pricing for previous years I agree with you :). > >> >> For the future, we are currently not planning a second Users' Forum >> and we are open to forward the organization of a second workshop >> to anybody else. >> >> Why don't you simply take this event as a first trigger to organize >> an QEMU conference for Developers and users. >> We can help you by forwarding the email addresses of some of the >> people. I can also help you if you want. >> This can be the start of a real great effort with huge benefit to the >> community. > > As stated above, things are more difficult than that, but I agree. We > do have annual KVM Forum meetings where we gather all the > virtualization people from Qemu as well and talk about things there. > The slides and recordings are publicly available, if you're > interested: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/KVM_Forum_2010. In general, > people surrounding KVM meet quite a bit. > > For the emulation side, things look different. I'm not aware of any > traction on the emulation side of Qemu. Getting people together for > that one is certainly lacking. I'm not sure I'm the right person to > talk to there. If nobody else steps up, I could barely play the role > of someone who knows what he's talking about, but I'm myself more of a > virtualization person too. > > So it all boils down to the audience you're expecting. From the > announcement and colocation with DATE, I assume you're looking mostly > for SystemC integration? That probably plays well into the emulation > piece. I don't think that doing yet another 'normal' virtualization > focused event would be beneficial - we get plenty of gatherings around > that already. > > > Alex > -- -- wolfgang _______________________________________________________________________ Wolfgang Mueller wolfgang@acm.org adt.cs.upb.de/wolfgang Paderborn University/C-LAB, Fuerstenallee 11, 33098 Paderborn, Germany Phone:(++)49-5251.60.6134 Fax:(++)49-5251.60.6065 _______________________________________________________________________ This message (plus attachments) is confidential and may be subject to lawyer-client privilege. Use without permission is strictly prohibited _______________________________________________________________________ Check Springer Verlag for our new book: HdS - Principles and Practice www.springer.com/engineering/circuits+%26+systems/book/978-1-4020-9435-4 _______________________________________________________________________