Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC v4 00/58] Memory API

[Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>]

On 07/20/2011 03:10 AM, Avi Kivity wrote:
> On 07/19/2011 11:51 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>> On 07/19/2011 11:10 AM, Avi Kivity wrote:
>>> On 07/19/2011 07:05 PM, Avi Kivity wrote:
>>>> On 07/19/2011 05:50 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's bits I don't like about the interface
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which bits are these?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing I haven't already commented on. I think there's too much in
>>>>> the generic level. I don't think coalesced I/O belongs here. It's a
>>>>> concept that doesn't fit. I think a side-band API would be nicer.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's impossible to do it in a side band. When a range that has
>>>> coalesced mmio is exposed is completely orthogonal to programming the
>>>> BAR register - it can happen, for example, due to another BAR being
>>>> removed or the bridge window being programmed. You can also have a
>>>> coalesced mmio region being partially clipped.
>>>
>>> Of course, it's not really impossible, just clumsy.
>>
>> There are exactly two devices that use coalesced I/O: VGA and e1000.
>>
>> VGA does coalesced I/O over the legacy VGA region (0xa0000 ...
>> 0xc0000). This region is very special in the PC and is directly routed
>> by the I440FX to the appropriate first PCI graphics card.
>>
>> The VGA device knows exactly where this region is mapped.
>
> The VGA device doesn't know *if* it is mapped. It can be obstructed by
> the chipset and by SMM. Other chipsets we emulate may support multiple
> VGA cards.

The i440fx can support multiple VGA cards just fine.

Legacy region accesses are always routed by the PCI bus to the first PCI 
device that identifies itself as a graphics card.

The card is very well aware of the fact that it is getting legacy VGA 
accesses or not because only one card can register for this area.

>> The e1000 does coalesced I/O for it's memory registers. But it's
>> dubious how much this actually matters anymore. The original claim was
>> a 10% boost with iperf.
>>
>> The e1000 is not performance competitive with virtio-net though so it
>> certainly is reasonable to assume that noone would notice if we
>> removed coalesced I/O from the e1000.
>
> The e1000 NIC is the best we have for guests that don't support virtio.
> It's not reasonable to reduce its performance.

So let's talk about real numbers.  This is netperf with a default 
invocation from guest to host.  All numbers are MB/sec

rtl8139
-------
119.45
118.12

e1000 w/coalesced mmio
----------------------
425.93
424.08

e1000 w/o coalesced mmio
------------------------
419.13
413.83

virtio-net
----------
4330.52
4419.90

So removing coalesced MMIO from the e1000 results in a massive 0.7% 
slowdown :-)

And while the e100 is > 100% faster than the rtl8139, it's still an 
order of magnitude slower the userspace virtio-net.

I'm confident that the e1000 could be improved if someone modified it to 
optimally use the new netdev interfaces.  But no one cares that much 
about the performance of the e1000.  And if we dropped coalesced MMIO 
support for the e1000, no one would notice.

Exits costs have changed dramatically over the years.  Optimizations 
that made sense with P4 class hardware don't necessary make sense these 
days.  QEMU has also changed a lot so bottle necks are no longer where 
they used to be.

>> The point is, it's so incredibly special cased that having it as part
>> of such a general purpose API seems wrong. Of the hundreds of devices,
>> we only have one device that we know for sure really needs it and it
>> could easily be done independent of the memory API for that device.
>>
>
> We either support coalesced mmio well, or not at all. Even if the API
> has only one user, that doesn't excuse doing it badly.

It's not at all that black and white.  We need to carefully choose what 
we model and then have the flexibility to break those models in the name 
of performance.

If we try to make everything fit elegantly into a model, we'll end up 
with something that's overly complex just to accommodate a single user. 
  That's my general concern with where we're going here.

I don't think it's too bad and as I said, I don't object to it in it's 
current form.  But I think it could be simplified.  Even in it's current 
non-simple form, it's better than what we currently have.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori