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helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 8/14/25 5:28 AM, Eugenio Perez Martin wrote: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 4:06 PM Peter Xu wrote: >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 11:25:00AM +0200, Eugenio Perez Martin wrote: >>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:56 PM Peter Xu wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 05:26:05PM -0400, Jonah Palmer wrote: >>>>> This effort was started to reduce the guest visible downtime by >>>>> virtio-net/vhost-net/vhost-vDPA during live migration, especially >>>>> vhost-vDPA. >>>>> >>>>> The downtime contributed by vhost-vDPA, for example, is not from having to >>>>> migrate a lot of state but rather expensive backend control-plane latency >>>>> like CVQ configurations (e.g. MQ queue pairs, RSS, MAC/VLAN filters, offload >>>>> settings, MTU, etc.). Doing this requires kernel/HW NIC operations which >>>>> dominates its downtime. >>>>> >>>>> In other words, by migrating the state of virtio-net early (before the >>>>> stop-and-copy phase), we can also start staging backend configurations, >>>>> which is the main contributor of downtime when migrating a vhost-vDPA >>>>> device. >>>>> >>>>> I apologize if this series gives the impression that we're migrating a lot >>>>> of data here. It's more along the lines of moving control-plane latency out >>>>> of the stop-and-copy phase. >>>> >>>> I see, thanks. >>>> >>>> Please add these into the cover letter of the next post. IMHO it's >>>> extremely important information to explain the real goal of this work. I >>>> bet it is not expected for most people when reading the current cover >>>> letter. >>>> >>>> Then it could have nothing to do with iterative phase, am I right? >>>> >>>> What are the data needed for the dest QEMU to start staging backend >>>> configurations to the HWs underneath? Does dest QEMU already have them in >>>> the cmdlines? >>>> >>>> Asking this because I want to know whether it can be done completely >>>> without src QEMU at all, e.g. when dest QEMU starts. >>>> >>>> If src QEMU's data is still needed, please also first consider providing >>>> such facility using an "early VMSD" if it is ever possible: feel free to >>>> refer to commit 3b95a71b22827d26178. >>>> >>> >>> While it works for this series, it does not allow to resend the state >>> when the src device changes. For example, if the number of virtqueues >>> is modified. >> >> Some explanation on "how sync number of vqueues helps downtime" would help. >> Not "it might preheat things", but exactly why, and how that differs when >> it's pure software, and when hardware will be involved. >> > > By nvidia engineers to configure vqs (number, size, RSS, etc) takes > about ~200ms: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lore.kernel.org/qemu-devel/6c8ebb97-d546-3f1c-4cdd-54e23a566f61@nvidia.com/T/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!OQdf7sGaBlbXhcFHX7AC7HgYxvFljgwWlIgJCvMgWwFvPqMrAMbWqf0862zV5shIjaUvlrk54fLTK6uo2pA$ > > Adding Dragos here in case he can provide more details. Maybe the > numbers have changed though. > > And I guess the difference with pure SW will always come down to PCI > communications, which assume it is slower than configuring the host SW > device in RAM or even CPU cache. But I admin that proper profiling is > needed before making those claims. > > Jonah, can you print the time it takes to configure the vDPA device > with traces vs the time it takes to enable the dataplane of the > device? So we can get an idea of how much time we save with this. > Let me know if this isn't what you're looking for. I'm assuming by "configuration time" you mean: - Time from device startup (entry to vhost_vdpa_dev_start()) to right before we start enabling the vrings (e.g. VHOST_VDPA_SET_VRING_ENABLE in vhost_vdpa_net_cvq_load()). And by "time taken to enable the dataplane" I'm assuming you mean: - Time right before we start enabling the vrings (see above) to right after we enable the last vring (at the end of vhost_vdpa_net_cvq_load()) Guest specs: 128G Mem, SVQ=on, CVQ=on, 8 queue pairs: -netdev type=vhost-vdpa,vhostdev=$VHOST_VDPA_0,id=vhost-vdpa0, queues=8,x-svq=on -device virtio-net-pci,netdev=vhost-vdpa0,id=vdpa0,bootindex=-1, romfile=,page-per-vq=on,mac=$VF1_MAC,ctrl_vq=on,mq=on, ctrl_vlan=off,vectors=18,host_mtu=9000, disable-legacy=on,disable-modern=off --- Configuration time: ~31s Dataplane enable time: ~0.14ms >> If it's only about pre-heat, could dest qemu preheat with max num of >> vqueues? Is it the same cost of downtime when growing num of queues, >> v.s. shrinking num of queues? >> > > Well you need to send the vq addresses and properties to preheat > these. If the address is invalid, the destination device will > interpret the vq address as the avail ring, for example, and will read > an invalid avail idx. > >> For softwares, is it about memory transaction updates due to the vqueues? >> If so, have we investigated a more generic approach on memory side, likely >> some form of continuation from Chuang's work I previously mentioned? >> > > This work is very interesting, and most of the downtime was because of > memory pinning indeed. Thanks for bringing it up! But the downtime is > not caused for the individual vq memory config, but for pinning all > the guest's memory for the device to access to it. > > I think it is worth exploring if it affects the downtime in the case > of HW. I don't see any reason to reject that series but lack of > reviews, isn't it? >