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envelope-from=steven.sistare@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 8/16/2024 2:34 PM, Steven Sistare wrote: > On 8/16/2024 11:59 AM, Peter Xu wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 04:36:58PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: >>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 11:23:01AM -0400, Peter Xu wrote: >>>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2024 at 11:13:36AM -0400, Steven Sistare wrote: >>>>> On 8/15/2024 4:28 PM, Peter Xu wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 04:07:50PM -0400, Steven Sistare wrote: >>>>>>>>> The new user-visible interfaces are: >>>>>>>>>      * cpr-transfer (MigMode migration parameter) >>>>>>>>>      * cpr-uri (migration parameter) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder whether this parameter can be avoided already, maybe we can let >>>>>>>> cpr-transfer depend on unix socket in -incoming, then integrate fd sharing >>>>>>>> in the same channel? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You saw the answer in another thread, but I repeat it here for others benefit: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     "CPR state cannot be sent over the normal migration channel, because devices >>>>>>>      and backends are created prior to reading the channel, so this mode sends >>>>>>>      CPR state over a second migration channel that is not visible to the user. >>>>>>>      New QEMU reads the second channel prior to creating devices or backends." >>>>>> >>>>>> Today when looking again, I wonder about the other way round: can we make >>>>>> the new parameter called "-incoming-cpr", working exactly the same as >>>>>> "cpr-uri" qemu cmdline, but then after cpr is loaded it'll be automatically >>>>>> be reused for migration incoming ports? >>>>>> >>>>>> After all, cpr needs to happen already with unix sockets.  Having separate >>>>>> cmdline options grants user to make the other one to be non-unix, but that >>>>>> doesn't seem to buy us anything.. then it seems easier to always reuse it, >>>>>> and restrict cpr-transfer to only work with unix sockets for incoming too? >>>>> >>>>> This idea also occurred to me, but I dislike the loss of flexibility for >>>>> the incoming socket type.  The exec URI in particular can do anything, and >>>>> we would be eliminating it. >>>> >>>> Ah, I would be guessing that if Juan is still around then exec URI should >>>> already been marked deprecated and prone to removal soon.. while I tend to >>>> agree that exec does introduce some complexity meanwhile iiuc nobody uses >>>> that in production systems. >>>> >>>> What's the exec use case you're picturing?  Would that mostly for debugging >>>> purpose, and would that be easily replaceable with another tunnelling like >>>> "ncat" or so? >>> >>> Conceptually "exec:" is a nice thing, but from a practical POV it >>> introduces difficulties for QEMU. QEMU doesn't know if the exec'd >>> command will provide a unidirectional channel or bidirectional >>> channel, so has to assume the worst - unidirectional. It also can't >>> know if it is safe to run the exec multiple times, or is only valid >>> to run it once - so afgai nhas to assume once only. >>> >>> We could fix those by adding further flags in the migration address >>> to indicate if its bi-directional & multi-channel safe. >>> >>> Technically "exec" is obsolete given "fd", but then that applies to >>> literally all protocols. Implementing them in QEMU is a more user >>> friendly thing. >>> >>> Exec was more compelling when QEMU's other protocols were less >>> mature, lacking TLS for example, but I still find it interesting >>> as a facility. >> >> Right, it's an interesting idea on its own.  It's just that when QEMU grows >> into not only a tool anymore it adds burden on top as you discussed, in >> which case we consider dropping things as wins (and we already started >> doing so at least in migration, but iiuc it's not limited to migration). >> >> Again, it looks reasonable to drop because I think it's too easy to tool-up >> the same "exec:" function with ncat or similar things.  E.g. kubevirt does >> TLS even today without qemu's TLS, and AFAIU that's based on unix sockets >> not exec, and it tunnels to the daemon for TLS encryption (which is prone >> of removal, though).  So even that is not leveraged as we thought. > > Also, the "fd" URI would not work.  We could not read from it once for cpr state, > reopen it, and read again for migration state. > > Nor multifd. Am I wrong? I still go back to my original statement: -incoming-cpr has equal or greater "specification complexity" than -cpr-uri. It is not simpler, and comes with restrictions. - Steve