[Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

Hi all !

I would like to update some part of Qemu documentation, especially
related to Windows Host.

I am speaking about the end-user docs, those:
http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/qemu-doc.html

For example the documentation is very poor about running Qemu under
Windows host, with it's lacking details about Windows networks.

Such things, only if I understand them correctly, like
host-integration (TAP-network, or virtual Host ethernet devices) and
SMB integration are only work for Linux host, right?

I would like to state exactly which parts of Qemu or not available on
Windows host system in the end-user docs, and I will send you a
diff/patch.

-Fenix*NBK*. 18.9.2006

Re: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Lonnie Mendez]

On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 05:05 +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> Hi all !
> 
> I would like to update some part of Qemu documentation, especially
> related to Windows Host.
> 
> I am speaking about the end-user docs, those:
> http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/qemu-doc.html
> 
> For example the documentation is very poor about running Qemu under
> Windows host, with it's lacking details about Windows networks.
> 
> Such things, only if I understand them correctly, like
> host-integration (TAP-network, or virtual Host ethernet devices) and
> SMB integration are only work for Linux host, right?
> 
> I would like to state exactly which parts of Qemu or not available on
> Windows host system in the end-user docs, and I will send you a
> diff/patch.

See also:
http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/ (Documentation section below)

Re: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

> See also:
> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/ (Documentation section below)

Thank you very much.

I have found something useful: TAP for Windows - that is - virtual
ethernet network driver for Win NT based systems.

So basically only those docs were relevant:
http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/TapWin32-en.html
http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/HowToNetwork-en.html

But unfortunately, it comes separately from Qemu package, inside
"OpenVPN" software.

So my recommendation is to:
1) "get" the TAP driver out of "OpenVPN" package, and
2) put it into Qemu setup, and
3) update user docs with that.

I dunno if I will succeed in getting the driver out of OpenVPN, it
really depends how far it integrates into Windows... especially if it
integrates very deeply into registry this will be mission-impossible.

But if it's just few files, then it's doable.

alternatively it is possible to just:
1) update the docs,

that will say it is included in different package. But while this is
accpetable practise in the Linux world, (to have dependencies) this is
unacceptable behavior in Windows world. (in Windows, the standard is
to have the package be dependent only on the OS itself, and all else
dependencies must come in the setup)

>Maybe you like to check if QEMU Wiki
>http://kidsquid.com/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/QemuOnWindows

I have checked this wiki - this stuff is really nooby, so there was
really nothing new compared to the "Official End-User documentation of
Qemu".

============
Bottom line:

if I succeed in case one, this would be best, otherwise (in case 2)
it's not-so-good, but better than having poor docs as we have now.

Re: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

> But unfortunately, it comes separately from Qemu package, inside
> "OpenVPN" software.
>
> So my recommendation is to:
> 1) "get" the TAP driver out of "OpenVPN" package, and
> 2) put it into Qemu setup, and
> 3) update user docs with that.
>
> I dunno if I will succeed in getting the driver out of OpenVPN, it
> really depends how far it integrates into Windows... especially if it
> integrates very deeply into registry this will be mission-impossible.

OK, I have succeeded in retrieving the driver from OpenVPN package,
because it didn't have registry entries at all.

Now, I have built a separate setup package, that can be used
independedly from OpenVPN.

Here is the "setup-virtual-ethernet-tap.exe":
http://download.yousendit.com/E73E60032A75C3DF

NOTE: This download location is temporarily and will expire soon, by
then I hope to move else, to normal HTTP server.

Next step, I can build an integrated Qemu setup package for Windows,
that has TAP-Win32 drivers in it. (that way I will follow the standard
rule of Windows to depend *just* on the OS itself)
But I will only do this setup, if you agree to list it on Qemu homesite.

As for docs, I should note that this driver requires Win NT 5.0 and up
(2000 and XP), so if users wanna run Qemu on Win98, they won't have
this functionality.

Re[2]: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Alexey,

Monday, September 18, 2006, 10:17:05 PM, you wrote:

>> See also:
>> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/ (Documentation section below)

> Thank you very much.

> I have found something useful: TAP for Windows - that is - virtual
> ethernet network driver for Win NT based systems.

> So basically only those docs were relevant:
> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/TapWin32-en.html
> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/HowToNetwork-en.html

> But unfortunately, it comes separately from Qemu package, inside
> "OpenVPN" software.

  Don't you think that you should go to OpenVPN and lobby *them* to
provide standalone package then?

> So my recommendation is to:
> 1) "get" the TAP driver out of "OpenVPN" package, and
> 2) put it into Qemu setup, and
> 3) update user docs with that.

[]

> But if it's just few files, then it's doable.

  Sure, many things are doable. ;-)

> alternatively it is possible to just:
> 1) update the docs,

> that will say it is included in different package. But while this is
> accpetable practise in the Linux world, (to have dependencies) this is
> unacceptable behavior in Windows world. (in Windows, the standard is
> to have the package be dependent only on the OS itself, and all else
> dependencies must come in the setup)

  Unacceptable behavior? Windows world? Who defines what's acceptable
and what's not? You don't want to say it's Microsoft, huh? ;-)


  Well, anyway, you maybe noticed that QEMU author does not provide
Win32 build *at all*. It is done by another person (Kazu, win32
maintainer), and hosted elsewhere (though linked). The reason for that
must be rather simple: the author does not have resources to support
Windows version, unfortunately.


> Here is the "setup-virtual-ethernet-tap.exe":
> http://download.yousendit.com/E73E60032A75C3DF
> 
> NOTE: This download location is temporarily and will expire soon, by
> then I hope to move else, to normal HTTP server.
> 
> Next step, I can build an integrated Qemu setup package for Windows,
> that has TAP-Win32 drivers in it. (that way I will follow the standard
> rule of Windows to depend *just* on the OS itself)
> But I will only do this setup, if you agree to list it on Qemu homesite.

  And again, it comes not to doing something, but to maintaining and
supporting that. Because otherwise, in a year, only broken links will
remind of good intentions, or in the best case, outdated binaries of
unknown origin.


  So, however it may seem overcomplicated, more sustained way to get
better Windows support is indeed to submit doc patches, cooperate with
Win32 maintainer on improving his site/packaging, or start your own
Win32 port project and see if you can do better.


  Anyway, I really hope that I'm wrong and your packaging contribution
will be accepted without much hassle, to rejoice of all us, Windows
users.



>>Maybe you like to check if QEMU Wiki
>>http://kidsquid.com/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/QemuOnWindows

> I have checked this wiki - this stuff is really nooby, so there was
> really nothing new compared to the "Official End-User documentation of
> Qemu".

> ============
> Bottom line:

> if I succeed in case one, this would be best, otherwise (in case 2)
> it's not-so-good, but better than having poor docs as we have now.

-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: Re[2]: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

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Hi all again!

OK, I have updated the docs, and made a patch.
Please update the docs on site.

patch attached in this email. (don't know if it's filetered.... if you have
problems with filters let me know.)

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 228 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: qemu-doc-modi02.diff --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 2170 bytes --]

--- qemu-doc.html	2006-07-24 23:13:00.000000000 -0200
+++ qemu-doc-modi02.html	2006-09-20 21:16:52.000000000 -0200
@@ -11,10 +11,10 @@
 
 -->
 <head>
-<title>QEMU CPU Emulator User Documentation: </title>
+<title>QEMU System Emulator User Documentation: </title>
 
-<meta name="description" content="QEMU CPU Emulator User Documentation: ">
-<meta name="keywords" content="QEMU CPU Emulator User Documentation: ">
+<meta name="description" content="QEMU System Emulator User Documentation: ">
+<meta name="keywords" content="QEMU System Emulator User Documentation: ">
 <meta name="resource-type" content="document">
 <meta name="distribution" content="global">
 <meta name="Generator" content="texi2html 1.68">
@@ -46,7 +46,7 @@
 <td valign="middle" align="left">[<a href="#SEC59" title="Index">Index</a>]</td>
 <td valign="middle" align="left">[<a href="#SEC_About" title="About (help)"> ? </a>]</td>
 </tr></table>
-<h1 class="settitle">QEMU CPU Emulator User Documentation
+<h1 class="settitle">QEMU System Emulator User Documentation
 </h1>
 
 
@@ -1457,7 +1457,7 @@
 a virtual network device on your host (called <code>tapN</code>), and you
 can then configure it as if it was a real ethernet card.
 
-</p><p>As an example, you can download the `<tt>linux-test-xxx.tar.gz</tt>'
+</p><p>[Linux only] As an example, you can download the `<tt>linux-test-xxx.tar.gz</tt>'
 archive and copy the script `<tt>qemu-ifup</tt>' in `<tt>/etc</tt>' and
 configure properly <code>sudo</code> so that the command <code>ifconfig</code>
 contained in `<tt>qemu-ifup</tt>' can be executed as root. You must verify
@@ -1468,6 +1468,12 @@
 Linux distribution and <a href="#SEC10">Invocation</a> to have examples of
 command lines using the TAP network interfaces.
 
+<p>[Windows only] There is a virtual ethernet driver for Windows
+2000/XP systems, called TAP-Win32. But &nbsp;it is not included in standard
+Qemu for Windows, so you will need to get it separately. It is part of
+OpenVPN package, so download OpenVPN from : <a href="http://openvpn.net/">http://openvpn.net/</a> .</p>
+
+
 </p><hr size="6">
 <a name="SEC23"></a>
 <table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" border="0">

Re: Re[2]: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

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>
> > Next step, I can build an integrated Qemu setup package for Windows,
> > that has TAP-Win32 drivers in it. (that way I will follow the standard
> > rule of Windows to depend *just* on the OS itself)
> > But I will only do this setup, if you agree to list it on Qemu homesite.
>
>   And again, it comes not to doing something, but to maintaining and
> supporting that. Because otherwise, in a year, only broken links will remind
> of good intentions, or in the best case, outdated binaries of unknown
> origin.
>
>
>   So, however it may seem overcomplicated, more sustained way to get
> better Windows support is indeed to submit doc patches, cooperate with Win32
> maintainer on improving his site/packaging, or start your own
> Win32 port project and see if you can do better.
>
>
>   Anyway, I really hope that I'm wrong and your packaging contribution
> will be accepted without much hassle, to rejoice of all us, Windows users.



OK, agreed. Where may I find the so-called "Win32 maintainer" to ask about
integrating TAP-Win32 drivers and some additions into the package. Does he
listens to this list?

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Re: Re[2]: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Alexey Eremenko]

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Hello !?!

Have anyone looked at my patch ?

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 54 bytes --]

Re: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Jan Marten Simons]

Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> Hello !?!
>
> Have anyone looked at my patch ?
Fabrice already comitted its contents to cvs.

Jan

Re: [Qemu-devel] Poor Qemu documentation for Windows host

[Dirk Behme]

Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> For example the documentation is very poor about running Qemu under
> Windows host, with it's lacking details about Windows networks.

Maybe you like to check if QEMU Wiki

http://kidsquid.com/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/QemuOnWindows

can help you (and link at bottom of that page).

> I would like to state exactly which parts of Qemu or not available on
> Windows host system in the end-user docs, and I will send you a
> diff/patch.

You are invited to add anything to wiki you think is missing 
as well.

Dirk