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[83.57.170.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l4sm896631wrc.14.2020.09.22.02.29.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Sep 2020 02:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [RFC DOCUMENT 00/12] kubevirt-and-kvm: Add documents To: Andrea Bolognani , libvir-list@redhat.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=c3=a9?= Autocrypt: addr=philmd@redhat.com; keydata= mQINBDXML8YBEADXCtUkDBKQvNsQA7sDpw6YLE/1tKHwm24A1au9Hfy/OFmkpzo+MD+dYc+7 bvnqWAeGweq2SDq8zbzFZ1gJBd6+e5v1a/UrTxvwBk51yEkadrpRbi+r2bDpTJwXc/uEtYAB GvsTZMtiQVA4kRID1KCdgLa3zztPLCj5H1VZhqZsiGvXa/nMIlhvacRXdbgllPPJ72cLUkXf z1Zu4AkEKpccZaJspmLWGSzGu6UTZ7UfVeR2Hcc2KI9oZB1qthmZ1+PZyGZ/Dy+z+zklC0xl XIpQPmnfy9+/1hj1LzJ+pe3HzEodtlVA+rdttSvA6nmHKIt8Ul6b/h1DFTmUT1lN1WbAGxmg CH1O26cz5nTrzdjoqC/b8PpZiT0kO5MKKgiu5S4PRIxW2+RA4H9nq7nztNZ1Y39bDpzwE5Sp bDHzd5owmLxMLZAINtCtQuRbSOcMjZlg4zohA9TQP9krGIk+qTR+H4CV22sWldSkVtsoTaA2 qNeSJhfHQY0TyQvFbqRsSNIe2gTDzzEQ8itsmdHHE/yzhcCVvlUzXhAT6pIN0OT+cdsTTfif MIcDboys92auTuJ7U+4jWF1+WUaJ8gDL69ThAsu7mGDBbm80P3vvUZ4fQM14NkxOnuGRrJxO qjWNJ2ZUxgyHAh5TCxMLKWZoL5hpnvx3dF3Ti9HW2dsUUWICSQARAQABtDJQaGlsaXBwZSBN YXRoaWV1LURhdWTDqSAoUGhpbCkgPHBoaWxtZEByZWRoYXQuY29tPokCVQQTAQgAPwIbDwYL CQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQSJweePYB7obIZ0lcuio/1u3q3A3gUCXsfWwAUJ KtymWgAKCRCio/1u3q3A3ircD/9Vjh3aFNJ3uF3hddeoFg1H038wZr/xi8/rX27M1Vj2j9VH 0B8Olp4KUQw/hyO6kUxqkoojmzRpmzvlpZ0cUiZJo2bQIWnvScyHxFCv33kHe+YEIqoJlaQc JfKYlbCoubz+02E2A6bFD9+BvCY0LBbEj5POwyKGiDMjHKCGuzSuDRbCn0Mz4kCa7nFMF5Jv piC+JemRdiBd6102ThqgIsyGEBXuf1sy0QIVyXgaqr9O2b/0VoXpQId7yY7OJuYYxs7kQoXI 6WzSMpmuXGkmfxOgbc/L6YbzB0JOriX0iRClxu4dEUg8Bs2pNnr6huY2Ft+qb41RzCJvvMyu gS32LfN0bTZ6Qm2A8ayMtUQgnwZDSO23OKgQWZVglGliY3ezHZ6lVwC24Vjkmq/2yBSLakZE 6DZUjZzCW1nvtRK05ebyK6tofRsx8xB8pL/kcBb9nCuh70aLR+5cmE41X4O+MVJbwfP5s/RW 9BFSL3qgXuXso/3XuWTQjJJGgKhB6xXjMmb1J4q/h5IuVV4juv1Fem9sfmyrh+Wi5V1IzKI7 RPJ3KVb937eBgSENk53P0gUorwzUcO+ASEo3Z1cBKkJSPigDbeEjVfXQMzNt0oDRzpQqH2vp apo2jHnidWt8BsckuWZpxcZ9+/9obQ55DyVQHGiTN39hkETy3Emdnz1JVHTU0Q== Message-ID: <83b1a4fd-9d06-8a9a-974b-6314d370db21@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=philmd@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=63.128.21.124; envelope-from=philmd@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/22 02:07:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.455, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: crobinso@redhat.com, rmohr@redhat.com, vromanso@redhat.com Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" Hi Andrea, On 9/16/20 6:44 PM, Andrea Bolognani wrote: > Hello there! > > Several weeks ago, a group of Red Hatters working on the > virtualization stack (primarily QEMU and libvirt) started a > conversation with developers from the KubeVirt project with the goal > of better understanding and documenting the interactions between the > two. > > Specifically, we were interested in integration pain points, with the > underlying ideas being that only once those issues are understood it > becomes possible to look for solutions, and that better communication > would naturally lead to improvements on both sides. > > This series of documents was born out of that conversation. We're > sharing them with the QEMU and libvirt communities in the hope that > they can be a valuable resource for understanding how the projects > they're working on are consumed by higher-level tools, and what > challenges are encountered in the process. > > Note that, while the documents describe a number of potential > directions for things like development of new components, that's all > just brainstorming that naturally occurred as we were learning new > things: the actual design process should, and will, happen on the > upstream lists. > > Right now the documents live in their own little git repository[1], > but the expectation is that eventually they will find a suitable > long-term home. The most likely candidate right now is the main > KubeVirt repository, but if you have other locations in mind please > do speak up! > > I'm also aware of the fact that this delivery mechanism is fairly > unconventional, but I thought it would be the best way to spark a > discussion around these topics with the QEMU and libvirt developers. > > Last but not least, please keep in mind that the documents are a work > in progress, and polish has been applied to them unevenly: while the > information presented is, to the best of our knowledge, all accurate, > some parts are in a rougher state than others. Improvements will > hopefully come over time - and if you feel like helping out in making > that happen, it would certainly be appreciated! > > Looking forward to your feedback :) > > > [1] https://gitlab.com/abologna/kubevirt-and-kvm Thanks a lot for this documentation, I could learn new things, use cases out of my interest area. Useful as a developer to better understand how are used the areas I'm coding. This shorten a bit that gap between developers and users. What would be more valuable than a developer review/feedback is having feedback from users and technical writers. Suggestion: also share it on qemu-discuss@nongnu.org which is less technical (maybe simply repost the cover and link to the Wiki). -- What is not obvious in this cover (and the documents pasted on the list) is there are schema pictures on the Wiki pages which are not viewable and appreciable via an email post. -- I had zero knowledge on Kubernetes. I have been confused by their use in the introduction... >From Index: "The intended audience is people who are familiar with the traditional virtualization stack (QEMU plus libvirt), and in order to make it more approachable to them comparisons, are included and little to no knowledge of KubeVirt or Kubernetes is assumed." Then in Architecture's {Goals and Components} there is an assumption Kubernetes is known. Entering in Components, Kubernetes is briefly but enough explained. Then KubeVirt is very well explained. -- Sometimes the "Other topics" category is confusing, it seems out of the scope of the "better understanding and documenting the interactions between KubeVirt and KVM" and looks like left over notes. I.e.: "Another possibility is to leverage the device-mapper from Linux to provide features such as snapshots and even like Incremental Backup. For example, dm-era seems to provide the basic primitives for bitmap tracking. This could be part of scenario number 1, or cascaded with other PVs somewhere else. Is this already being used? For example, cybozu-go/topolvm is a CSI LVM Plugin for k8s." "vhost-user-blk in other CSI backends Would it make sense for other CSI backends to implement support for vhost-user-blk?" "The audience is people who are familiar with the traditional virtualization stack (QEMU plus libvirt)". Feeling part of the audience, I have no clue how to answer these questions... I'd prefer you tell me :) Maybe renaming the "Other topics" section would help. "Unanswered questions", "Other possibilities to investigate",... -- Very good contribution in documentation, Thanks! Phil.