From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7D1BC7EE22 for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 11:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pwLgv-000398-Pz; Tue, 09 May 2023 07:39:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pwLgt-00038g-5t for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 09 May 2023 07:39:35 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pwLgr-0001Ti-8g for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 09 May 2023 07:39:34 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3078c092056so2023491f8f.1 for ; Tue, 09 May 2023 04:39:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; t=1683632371; x=1686224371; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date :subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:references:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=rARTuEDLmGFICGAYuQKc50jHSttlE+cUw6tbbQAYke0=; b=g1tSN+GL37Ez80PRpdKeRrK51v2fXA7c8iNtcOF9sbOV1gYaPA72yneKRRVxc38BHH mTAbY+aa9RtXmx0hSytQRRgIJ/Ode3cpffLNNud1a+D6Vcu1C1UnVaTzkJQqzO+1gA9d kkmngDOFXaFwGkNvFdvr2uucVCSIpX0RiUCAL0i2QQ/gdH3K65OslvsDgpMzOJOXwZtY KNowz75pgrMQfe0u1eiFpJr5WWEEhw024zOM830G4zU0eG2tR7kSqvxnAB2rpLuPiHW9 Y7FEZLkwkrxtF2mOgU5Vm8CXK6nWp2/QBd0GnWQ5PpDTsy9SbTlfps94S6CDNO1tWJca HITA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683632371; x=1686224371; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date :subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:references:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rARTuEDLmGFICGAYuQKc50jHSttlE+cUw6tbbQAYke0=; b=e/zPFbE7cm4zZ/w73kbbNxwVB41sh5gxFiEGrFG6UJW9bXJPzs3v6ebXAPdpFqZNrQ c/9ef55dqudSbV1RONWRospZ6ZA5tKI579fix/Dkuiakjgra8JLY2NBtdP6n28LC1rEN Mrd1LZ3R50v8dXmAB87LawguqQpb1inwR9oziUZP0NcDZUb+PFJZ00dexj9O1j0bHZnY AZtZL/G2jgs0Flhpad8c/Pz28xRnEy0zuvLt4qTc2zzjYY7axIEJFDlIhKV2js0bX8cd 4tm6tLO4QmoC08Jyay6E7eVCXK06ybT7p95G2OQqpitWoNlpJg4ZNxuwdPDQ6rgq0i3U sCFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDy0Tomy096dCIa6xGcJqa0HK5xDX/Edt7w2kOwiquvsLzl3DGs/ iNLawlW2hfKDPRRc+7wGm7+EeA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ7ECH6pxLJ8Vhz+Nh3XJUMMKrFSWZsbEhA4IuD45LQymB3bfKoQefHmoH5GNCCd1p8Xf8VWyA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ee84:0:b0:306:b48:3fc4 with SMTP id b4-20020adfee84000000b003060b483fc4mr9325080wro.31.1683632371029; Tue, 09 May 2023 04:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen.linaroharston ([85.9.250.243]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n23-20020a7bc5d7000000b003ee74c25f12sm19634231wmk.35.2023.05.09.04.39.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 May 2023 04:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zen.linaroharston (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288D41FFBB; Tue, 9 May 2023 12:39:30 +0100 (BST) References: <20230503091244.1450613-1-alex.bennee@linaro.org> <20230503091244.1450613-6-alex.bennee@linaro.org> <531a2eab-f0e6-46a5-c021-c82746c1ae38@redhat.com> <87y1m5s9yl.fsf@linaro.org> <5fb214d8-4a54-f896-f23f-fe9e646e4b2d@redhat.com> <878re4cl1u.fsf@suse.de> <70da6b28-d731-7e3b-b5a6-7d9983389d57@redhat.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.11.4; emacs 29.0.90 From: Alex =?utf-8?Q?Benn=C3=A9e?= To: Paolo Bonzini Cc: Peter Maydell , Fabiano Rosas , qemu-devel , Laurent Vivier , Artyom Tarasenko , "Edgar E. Iglesias" , Wainer dos Santos Moschetta , Thomas Huth , Leif Lindholm , Gerd Hoffmann , Helge Deller , Xiaojuan Yang , Stefan Hajnoczi , Cleber Rosa , Eduardo Habkost , Juan Quintela , John Snow , Yoshinori Sato , =?utf-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric?= Le Goater , Ilya Leoshkevich , Pavel Dovgalyuk , Andrew Jeffery , qemu-s390x , Richard Henderson , qemu-arm , Bastian Koppelmann , Beraldo Leal , Max Filippov , =?utf-8?Q?Marc-And?= =?utf-8?Q?r=C3=A9?= Lureau , Mark Cave-Ayland , Jiaxun Yang , Radoslaw Biernacki , Aurelien Jarno , David Hildenbrand , Markus Armbruster , Song Gao , Joel Stanley , =?utf-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= , Philippe =?utf-8?Q?Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 05/22] hw/arm: Select VIRTIO_NET for virt machine Date: Tue, 09 May 2023 12:37:15 +0100 In-reply-to: <70da6b28-d731-7e3b-b5a6-7d9983389d57@redhat.com> Message-ID: <878rdxbuoe.fsf@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=alex.bennee@linaro.org; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Paolo Bonzini writes: > On 5/9/23 12:00, Peter Maydell wrote: >> On Tue, 9 May 2023 at 10:42, Paolo Bonzini wrote: >>> >>> On 5/9/23 11:27, Peter Maydell wrote: >>>> On Mon, 8 May 2023 at 23:24, Paolo Bonzini wrote: >>>>> --without-default-devices is not about choosing to not build >>>>> some devices; it is about making non-selected devices opt-in >>>>> rather than opt-out. >>>> >>>> Hmm, so it's basically "the person doing the configuration needs >>>> to know what they're doing, the Kconfig system will give them >>>> no hints about what devices might or might not be needed to >>>> make machine type M functional" ? >>> >>> It depends on what you mean by functional. I would say you do get what >>> is needed to have a functional machine, but not what is needed to have a >>> useful machine. >> If you need to pass '-nodefaults' to get the thing to start up at >> all, that seems to be stretching the definition of "functional" >> to me. > > Then, an accurate description that uses "functional" in that sense > could be as follows: > > The Kconfig system will include any devices and subsystems that are > mandatory for a given machine type, and will flag any configuration > conflicts. However, the person doing the configuration still needs to > know which devices are needed (on top of the mandatory ones) to obtain > a functional guest, and Kconfig will not provide any hints in this > respect. So I thought that was the model I was following in adding devices but it seems I don't understand the no-defaults behaviour. What is the difference between a device that is added in the machine.c that makes it required or expendable with -nodefaults? > > Paolo --=20 Alex Benn=C3=A9e Virtualisation Tech Lead @ Linaro