From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBC1C433DB for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 15:44:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC2A123105 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 15:44:37 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org CC2A123105 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mutex.one Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:52496 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krjq0-0002sr-Nl for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 10:44:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krjoZ-0001po-9J; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 10:43:07 -0500 Received: from mail.mutex.one ([62.77.152.124]:46758) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krjoX-0008Bh-LM; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 10:43:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mutex.one (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F81FBF40375; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 17:43:01 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mutex.one Received: from mail.mutex.one ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mutex.one [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id moyrh-Txwy5l; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 17:43:00 +0200 (EET) Received: [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])nknown [79.112.42.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mutex.one (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72086BF402FC; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 17:43:00 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mutex.one; s=default; t=1608651780; bh=4c0z7GikZQtp0+kQ7r75UvNRsiKRmFYSiLZyq241zTw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=DeMVnAvOL9Cj5FJaRlCgo+1tLSeJUjy9xBr8Lkob8kLuAh6RQ7ipyKVGSh++1q2dE NiCrSN99gr3aFPz2YxVuolvoULFKH4XQTnsTipP9NkepxrAQROWPv/HVMUsyCEURN8 NILlK0E5+3G5+83MnEitJUpw7PgT2sp84pdgf3+Y= From: Marian Posteuca To: Michael Tokarev , qemu-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] acpi: Permit OEM ID and OEM table ID fields to be changed In-Reply-To: References: <20201222113353.31224-1-posteuca@mutex.one> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2020 17:39:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87eejh4zpq.fsf@mutex.one> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=62.77.152.124; envelope-from=posteuca@mutex.one; helo=mail.mutex.one X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , Eduardo Habkost , Ben Warren , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Richard Henderson , Dongjiu Geng , Shannon Zhao , Xiang Zheng , qemu-arm@nongnu.org, Igor Mammedov , Paolo Bonzini , Xiao Guangrong Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" Michael Tokarev writes: > 22.12.2020 14:33, Marian Posteuca wrote: >> Qemu's ACPI table generation sets the fields OEM ID and OEM table ID >> to "BOCHS " and "BXPCxxxx" where "xxxx" is replaced by the ACPI >> table name. >> >> Some games like Red Dead Redemption 2 seem to check the ACPI OEM ID >> and OEM table ID for the strings "BOCHS" and "BXPC" and if they are >> found, the game crashes(this may be an intentional detection >> mechanism to prevent playing the game in a virtualized environment). > > This isn't a technical question/comment about the patch itself, but > about something different. Do we really want to play this whack-a-mole > game? If we change ACPI table IDs, those who want to disallow running > their software inside qemu/kvm will find some other way to check for > this environment. We will change that, - just to be found again. And > so on.. is it productive? I don't think so. My personal opinion is that as long as it's not too difficult to mask that the guest is running in a virtualized environment we should try to do these changes. But I guess this can only be judged on per change basis. > > I'm not against this patch in any way, not at all, - having this ability > is good for other purpose too. But I think we can't won in this "detect > if we're running under qemu" battle easily. And the next version of the > same game will have a more sofisticated detection method and we won't > even know which way they used. People gaming in a virtualized environment, are a very small fraction of windows gamers, so I would assume that these companies do the bare minimum to detect QEMU(an exception might be online games where they have an incentive to prevent cheating). Also I suppose this change could also be helpful for malware analysis(since it prevents one way of detecting if windows is running in a VM)? Would you like a more generic commit message which doesn't references gaming? > > Thanks, > > /mjt