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Iglesias" , Richard Henderson , Paolo Bonzini , Peter Maydell , Song Gao , Xiaojuan Yang , =?utf-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric?= Le Goater , Palmer Dabbelt , Alistair Francis , Bin Meng , David Gibson , Markus Armbruster , Michael Roth , Luc Michel , Damien Hedde , Alessandro Di Federico Subject: Re: =?utf-8?B?5Zue5aSN77yaQW55?= interest in a QEMU emulation BoF at KVM Forum? Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:23:09 +0100 In-reply-to: <5ba3509f-7125-42ea-93fc-552e88928b32.lzw194868@alibaba-inc.com> Message-ID: <87tu5rmavc.fsf@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::330; envelope-from=alex.bennee@linaro.org; helo=mail-wm1-x330.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" "=E5=88=98=E5=BF=97=E4=BC=9F" writes: > These topics are interesting. I have two questions. > > 1. Can we join it on online? If so, could you share the meeting link > before the meeting. I will try to find out. > > 2. If it is only offline, could you share the meeting content to the > public? I'll certainly try and write up some minutes for the list. > > Thanks, > Zhiwei=20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AAlex Benn=C3=A9e > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2022=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=881=E6= =97=A5(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=9B=9B) 01:08 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9Aqemu-devel@nongnu.org > =E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9AMark Burton ; Edgar E. Iglesias ; Richard > Henderson ; Paolo Bonzini ; Peter Maydell > ; Song Gao ; Xiaojuan Yan= g ; > "C=C3=A9dric Le Goater" ; Palmer Dabbelt ; Alistair Francis > ; Bin Meng ; David Gib= son ; > Markus Armbruster ; Michael Roth ; Luc Michel ; > Damien Hedde ; Alessandro Di Federico > =E4=B8=BB=E3=80=80=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9ARe: Any interest in a QEMU emulation= BoF at KVM Forum? > > Alex Benn=C3=A9e writes: > > qemu-devel keeps bouncing the message so replying with a cut down CC lis= t. > > > Hi, > > > > Given our slowly growing range of TCG emulations and the evident > > interest in keeping up with modern processor architectures is it worth > > having an emulation focused BoF at the up-coming KVM Forum? > > > > Some potential topics for discussion I could think of might include: > > > > * Progress towards heterogeneous vCPU emulation > > > > We've been making slow progress in removing assumptions from the > > various front-ends about their global nature and adding accel:TCG > > abstractions and support for the translator loop. We can already have > > CPUs from the same architecture family in a model. What else do we ne= ed > > to do so we can have those funky ARM+RiscV+Tricore heterogeneous > > models? Is it library or something else? > > > > * External Device Models > > > > I know this is a contentious topic given the potential for GPL > > end-runs. However there are also good arguments for enabling the > > testing of open source designs without having forcing the > > implementation of a separate C model to test software. For example if > > we hypothetically modelled a Pi Pico would it make sense to model the > > PIO in C if we could just compile the Verilog for it into a SystemC > > model? Would a plethora of closed device models be the inevitable > > consequence of such an approach? Would it matter if we just > > concentrated on supporting useful open source solutions? > > > > * Dynamic Machine Models > > > > While we try and avoid modelling bespoke virtual HW in QEMU > > (virt/goldfish not withstanding ;-) there is obviously a desire in the > > EDA space to allow such experimentation. Is this something we can > > provide so aspiring HW engineers can experiment with system > > architectures without having to form QEMU and learn QOM. There have > > been suggestions about consuming device trees or maybe translating to > > QMP calls and adding support for wiring devices together. Given the > > number of forks that exist is this something that could be better > > supported upstream without degenerating into messy hacks? > > > > * A sense of time > > > > Currently we have the fairly limited support for -icount in QEMU. At > > the same time we have no desire to start expanding frontends with > > the details cost models required for a more realistic sense of time to > > be presented. One suggestion is to expand the TCG plugin interface to > > allow for the plugin to control time allowing as much or little logic > > to be pushed there as we like and freeing up frontends from ever havi= ng > > to consider it. > > > > Are any of these topics of interest? Are there any other emulation > > topics people would like to discuss? > > --=20 > Alex Benn=C3=A9e --=20 Alex Benn=C3=A9e