From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53498) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsLUh-0004X7-5h for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 17:48:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsLUf-0008It-3f for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 17:48:35 -0500 Received: from e37.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.158]:40474) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsLUe-0008Ik-TR for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 17:48:33 -0500 Received: from /spool/local by e37.co.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for from ; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:48:31 -0700 Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by d03dlp02.boulder.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DC23E40044 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from d03av05.boulder.ibm.com (d03av05.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.85]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id r07MmSsp281086 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:48:28 -0700 Received: from d03av05.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av05.boulder.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id r07MmSFq005530 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:48:28 -0700 From: Anthony Liguori In-Reply-To: <50EB4DF4.6060308@suse.de> References: <1355760006-891-1-git-send-email-borntraeger@de.ibm.com> <874nisvlfv.fsf@codemonkey.ws> <87ip78u50m.fsf@codemonkey.ws> <50EB47CC.6030507@suse.de> <50EB4DF4.6060308@suse.de> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:48:22 -0600 Message-ID: <87txqs1ufd.fsf@codemonkey.ws> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] qdev: obey no_user List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=A4rber?= , Peter Maydell Cc: Christian Borntraeger , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" Andreas F=C3=A4rber writes: > Am 07.01.2013 23:20, schrieb Peter Maydell: >> On 7 January 2013 22:10, Andreas F=C3=A4rber wrote: >>> Am 07.01.2013 21:16, schrieb Peter Maydell: >>>> On 7 January 2013 20:12, Anthony Liguori wrote: >>>>> Peter Maydell writes: >>>>>> It seems to me like arbitrarily allowing the monitor to construct >>>>>> no-user devices isn't really the right way to attack the problem >>>>>> of "allow complete machine construction by management tools"... >>>>> >>>>> There is no such thing as a 'no-user' device. It's a silly distincti= on >>>>> that has never had a consistent meaning. >>>> >>>> Then let's just rip that flag out completely. >>> >>> That's a bad idea, given that we are about to make the CPU a device. >>=20 >> We already have a pile of devices which the user can't usefully >> use -device on...CPUs would be just another one, right? > > Not sure what you're arguing for here? The CPU is the worst example of a > device I know in that it is not limited to a particular bus and messes > with global state and threads. > > Also, I'm sure that there will be objects/devices that a management tool > is not supposed to mess with either, once we start using > object_initialize() more. > > If we agree that "no_user =3D 1" is not ideal or used inconsistently, then > we should IMO talk about how to replace/amend it and not conclude to > just rip it out and leave users without sensible error messages while > praying for The Omnipotent Management Tool that AFAICS we don't have > today... If you want to replace 'no_user' with 'cannot_instantiate_with_device_add_yet_due_to_internal_bugs' I'm okay with that. I'm all for having friendly errors for users. But no_user doesn't just serve a 'broken' flag today. Random devices are marked as no_user that really shouldn't be like isa-fdc. Regards, Anthony Liguori > > Andreas > > --=20 > SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 N=C3=BCrnberg, Germany > GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend=C3=B6rffer; HRB 16746 AG N=C3= =BCrnberg