From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A098DECAAD3 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 17:11:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47158 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTRFX-0005sM-Cy for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:11:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44446) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTRE5-00052L-J1 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:10:05 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]:36627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTRE3-0000i5-HP for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:10:05 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id v7-20020a1cac07000000b003a6062a4f81so12054834wme.1 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:10:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date :subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:references:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=pKlU/vD9u5EnFDevRM9wfXhSNbkGJIZPYZ8Gvv90l+c=; b=M4Mc19htt+3ABuXDvVaB72yLNr6g2Q8ilVjHy0wbtIDgaaOO1G3emvSMRdHLoFaUwC BUVE9xK4I+RbVUTmEkO16232npLC4GoWTLgeJBu5pEoJu6+HJoXybRU3jkRpC085/prL EQJUo1DH/Yr8/Gi42/lIVOqjBvvpGx4eNrkpHLeV4rpe189s4Z87DGRQ/Qotqu0uyG7h 52uo0UAgBUuGtO9MMrWT298nAWu2KDWu9hjiCkJC6cTIlSdhVgNzrhXQQ+B/wLLGn/BM 4tMzQjU9GmKqLthXtvIdyU0h0JmjkcY6Uvhq3ITgmm0fhC9pmVKIYmZ+4f4A651icMd0 ZFag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date :subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:references:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date; bh=pKlU/vD9u5EnFDevRM9wfXhSNbkGJIZPYZ8Gvv90l+c=; b=FiNn3ORWlYOJeXs0TdwlZIwPaMAIt9XuvH+CKf8T8UrVUNocZoRIiL2j6rGOE6cntG QFzj6mIw69LAYZ2mSBzOsx5tRiMCFXTKdox2i4DkqNORq8znJIWeFKCORIfeVrCFcXA4 RFIHhbPbRo40uDULa34A+HIYL/sjeBuDJ0oEIuYfvccfEsyTZMwduKUbJTKB/WOraUQm PVPcPebJt+5pwFQGmNV/BhkUvM5JMfUcRXcI9B2DLfYnI1lbxamvS6iyGRvoDAua75na v5cdkVDN15lhsxOxbxE2EQSDdN0vpK1w5oTxf9apjbwEoSorOEyRSYNmi7Y+DkWeCuzZ S9hQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2p6hUfI6gn9mbRcMnhQFzXLsgMez7XydOmKZ3SCBlEa1GvkrR8 TU4A/VzrPC9h0POM0NLVY53hQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR44snuHjeSpmM1bJj5y69SoPGAooV9o+MAYeqqek1XphRCHg6r0++t/xFreGhRsKf6PfZTOZg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e04:b0:3a5:a34e:ae81 with SMTP id b4-20020a05600c4e0400b003a5a34eae81mr2571707wmq.147.1661965801460; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen.linaroharston ([185.81.254.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w5-20020a5d6805000000b0021e8d205705sm12183526wru.51.2022.08.31.10.10.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zen.linaroharston (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73621FFB7; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 18:09:59 +0100 (BST) References: <87a67kphih.fsf@linaro.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 28.1.91 From: Alex =?utf-8?Q?Benn=C3=A9e?= To: "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" Cc: Mark Burton , "Edgar E. Iglesias" , Richard Henderson , Paolo Bonzini , Peter Maydell , Song Gao , Xiaojuan Yang , =?utf-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric?= Le Goater , Palmer Dabbelt , Alistair Francis , Bin Meng , David Gibson , Markus Armbruster , Michael Roth , Luc Michel , Damien Hedde , Alessandro Di Federico Subject: Re: Any interest in a QEMU emulation BoF at KVM Forum? Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 18:08:22 +0100 In-reply-to: <87a67kphih.fsf@linaro.org> Message-ID: <87wnaonxug.fsf@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::335; envelope-from=alex.bennee@linaro.org; helo=mail-wm1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" Alex Benn=C3=A9e writes: qemu-devel keeps bouncing the message so replying with a cut down CC list. > Hi, > > Given our slowly growing range of TCG emulations and the evident > interest in keeping up with modern processor architectures is it worth > having an emulation focused BoF at the up-coming KVM Forum? > > Some potential topics for discussion I could think of might include: > > * Progress towards heterogeneous vCPU emulation > > We've been making slow progress in removing assumptions from the > various front-ends about their global nature and adding accel:TCG > abstractions and support for the translator loop. We can already have > CPUs from the same architecture family in a model. What else do we need > to do so we can have those funky ARM+RiscV+Tricore heterogeneous > models? Is it library or something else? > > * External Device Models > > I know this is a contentious topic given the potential for GPL > end-runs. However there are also good arguments for enabling the > testing of open source designs without having forcing the > implementation of a separate C model to test software. For example if > we hypothetically modelled a Pi Pico would it make sense to model the > PIO in C if we could just compile the Verilog for it into a SystemC > model? Would a plethora of closed device models be the inevitable > consequence of such an approach? Would it matter if we just > concentrated on supporting useful open source solutions? > > * Dynamic Machine Models > > While we try and avoid modelling bespoke virtual HW in QEMU > (virt/goldfish not withstanding ;-) there is obviously a desire in the > EDA space to allow such experimentation. Is this something we can > provide so aspiring HW engineers can experiment with system > architectures without having to form QEMU and learn QOM. There have > been suggestions about consuming device trees or maybe translating to > QMP calls and adding support for wiring devices together. Given the > number of forks that exist is this something that could be better > supported upstream without degenerating into messy hacks? > > * A sense of time > > Currently we have the fairly limited support for -icount in QEMU. At > the same time we have no desire to start expanding frontends with > the details cost models required for a more realistic sense of time to > be presented. One suggestion is to expand the TCG plugin interface to > allow for the plugin to control time allowing as much or little logic > to be pushed there as we like and freeing up frontends from ever having > to consider it. > > Are any of these topics of interest? Are there any other emulation > topics people would like to discuss? --=20 Alex Benn=C3=A9e