Re: [Qemu-devel] Qemu and Changed Block Tracking

[John Snow <jsnow@redhat.com>]

On 02/23/2017 09:29 AM, Peter Lieven wrote:
> Am 22.02.2017 um 22:17 schrieb John Snow:
>>
>> On 02/22/2017 03:45 AM, Peter Lieven wrote:
>>> Am 21.02.2017 um 22:13 schrieb John Snow:
>>>> On 02/21/2017 07:43 AM, Peter Lieven wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> is there anyone ever thought about implementing something like VMware
>>>>> CBT in Qemu?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1020128
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> A bit outdated now, but:
>>>> http://wiki.qemu-project.org/Features/IncrementalBackup
>>>>
>>>> and also a summary I wrote not too far back (PDF):
>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3CFr1TuHydWalVJaEdPaE5PbFE
>>>>
>>>> and I'm sure the Virtuozzo developers could chime in on this subject,
>>>> but basically we do have something similar in the works, as eblake
>>>> says.
>>> Hi John, Hi Erik,
>>>
>>> thanks for your feedback. Are you both the ones working primary on
>>> this topic?
>>> If there is anything to review or help needed, please let me know.
>>>
>> I've been working on incremental backups; Fam and I now co-maintain
>> block/dirty-bitmap.c.
>>
>> Vladimir Sementsov-Ogievskiy has been working on bitmap persistence and
>> migration from Virtuozzo; as well as the NBD specification amendment to
>> allow us to fleece images with dirty bitmaps.
>>
>> (Check the wiki and the whitepaper I linked!)
>>
>> Eric has been guiding the review process for the NBD side of things.
>>
>>> My 2 cents:
>>> I thing I had in mind if there is no image fleecing available, but
>>> fetching the dirty bitmap
>>> from external would be a feauture to put a write lock on a block device.
>>> Write lock means, drain all pending writes and queue all further
>>> writes until unlock (as if they
>>> were throttled to zero). This could help fetch consistent backups
>>> from storage device (thinking of iSCSI SAN) without
>>> the help of the hypervisor to actually transfer data (no load in the
>>> frontend network or the host). What would further
>>> be needed is a write generation for each block, not just only a dirty
>>> bitmap.
>>>
>>> In this case something like this via QMP (and external software)
>>> should work:
>>> ---8<---
>>>   gen =  write generation of last backup (or 0 for full backup)
>>>   do {
>>>       nextgen = fetch current write generation (via QMP)
>> As Eric said, there's a lot of hostility to using QMP as a metadata
>> transmission protocol.
>>
>>>       dirtymap = send all block whose write generation is greater
>>> than 'gen' (via QMP)
>>>       dirtycnt = 0
>>>       foreach block in dirtymap {
>>>                 copy to backup via external software
>>>                 dirtycnt++
>>>       }
>>>       gen = nextgen
>>>   } while (dirtycnt < X)         <--- to achieve this a thorttling or
>>> similar might be needed
>>>
>>> fsfreeze (optional)
>>> write lock (via QMP)
>>> backupgen = fetch current write generation (via QMP)
>>> dirtymap = send all block whose write generation is greater than
>>> 'gen' (via QMP)
>>> foreach block in dirtymap {
>>>                 copy to backup via external software
>>> }
>>> unlock (via QMP)
>>> fsthaw (optional)
>>> --->8---
>>>
>>> As far as I understand CBT in VMware is not just only a dirty bitmap,
>>> but also a write generation tracking for blocks (size 64kb or whatever)
>>>
>> I think at the moment I'm worried about getting the basic features out
>> the door, but I'm not opposed to adding fancier features if there's
>> justification or demand for them.
> 
> Sure, the basic features are most important. I was just thinking of the
> above scenario to interact with a NAS and have Qemu's "help"
> to create incremental backups.
> 
> Peter

If you get the chance to read the white paper I linked to you, please
let me know which use cases we might not be able to cover that you feel
other programs might offer.

I can also make a point to CC you on future upstream discussions as they
happen.

Thanks,
--js