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qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=c3=a9?= , Cleber Rosa , "Daniel P. Berrange" , Eduardo Habkost , QEMU Developers Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 6/4/19 1:31 AM, Markus Armbruster wrote: > Peter Maydell writes: > >> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 19:21, John Snow wrote: >>> I get it, we don't want to require Python 3.8 because some dev wanted >>> assignment conditionals -- but we're talking about Python 2 here, which >>> suffers its EOL by the end of this calendar year. > > "Not because some dev wanted assignment conditionals" is the non-reason. > Let me spell out the reason: supporting Python 2 is expensive for us. > As the amount of Python code grows, it gets more and more expensive. > > Is this really time and effort well spent? > I'd just like to clarify that you and I are arguing the same point. I used that non-reason intentionally, arguing that we don't want a trivial feature, we're talking about the major deprecation of an entire version of a language. I picked a far-fetched, very bleeding edge version (and a feature in it that matched, sorry, been doing a lot of Python lately) to counter Peter's point that we didn't want to support bleeding-edge stuff "just because." Sorry if I didn't articulate this point well. >>> So do we think it's reasonable to drop support for Python2 for the >>> release that comes out after Python2's EOL, or do we insist on 2x3 >>> simultaneous support for years more? >> >> I don't have a strong opinion on Python in particular, but >> I think it would be nicer to avoid the "python is a special >> snowflake" effect. > > Lots of things are nice. Limited resources dictate we can only get some > of them. > >> Would it really be so bad for it to just >> be "drop it when it falls off the last LTS distro" like the >> rest of our dependencies ? > > In my experience maintaining and evolving the QAPI generators, > supporting both Python 2 and 3 is a constant distraction that adds up > over time. It's all manual; we decided against adopting one of tool > chains made for dealing with this mess. I'd rather think about how to > solve real user problems like deprecation information or command line > introspection than deal with Python 2 vs. 3 arcana. > > Just the other day, I flagged an innocent-looking simplification of some > non-QAPI Python code that changed semantics subtly on Python 2, impact > unknown. The developer did not know. The fact that I waste precious > brain capacity on knowing this shit (pardon my French) is a bloody > shame. Well, some of this shit, because I've screwed it up myself, too. > > The sooner we stop the bleeding, the better. > I agree, and it looks like we have consensus that because RHEL7 has EPEL, we can drop Python 2 support. I think. What wasn't made clear to me yet is in which version we may do so. I think I suggested 4.2, and nobody agreed or disagreed with that point. --js