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Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:24:09 GMT Received: from smtpav06.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8A558043; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:24:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpav06.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2140458059; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:24:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [9.47.158.152] (unknown [9.47.158.152]) by smtpav06.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:24:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <92b60c63-16a2-6b0e-da38-923d180040da@linux.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 15:24:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.1 Subject: Re: [PATCH] tpm: add backend for mssim Content-Language: en-US From: Stefan Berger To: jejb@linux.ibm.com, =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Markus Armbruster References: <4780481659602f92fffacac66e7dca41ad2787c4.camel@linux.ibm.com> <8066be497c4c81827b24a672a550a805e06eec68.camel@linux.ibm.com> <92daee895872aab2047c3768a9c67b1839406568.camel@linux.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: t2LtTxgx4PjF-CIFRMdfWiyusZ_vuErX X-Proofpoint-GUID: frNPZZz_Pl7qjjxlng_k4X_bwY_rfqIU X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.923,Hydra:6.0.545,FMLib:17.11.122.1 definitions=2022-12-12_02,2022-12-12_02,2022-06-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=582 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2210170000 definitions=main-2212120179 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=148.163.158.5; envelope-from=stefanb@linux.ibm.com; helo=mx0b-001b2d01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 12/12/22 14:32, Stefan Berger wrote: > > > On 12/12/22 14:12, James Bottomley wrote: >> On Mon, 2022-12-12 at 13:58 -0500, Stefan Berger wrote: >>> On 12/12/22 13:48, James Bottomley wrote: >>>> On Mon, 2022-12-12 at 11:59 -0500, Stefan Berger wrote: >>>>> On 12/12/22 11:38, James Bottomley wrote: >> [...] >>>>>> the kernel use of the TPM, but I'm trying to fix that.  The >>>>>> standard mssim server is too simplistic to do transport layer >>>>>> security, but like everything that does this (or rather doesn't >>>>>> do this), you can front it with stunnel4. >>>>> >>>>> And who or what is going to set this up? >>>> >>>> I'm not sure I understand the question.  Stunnel4 is mostly used to >>>> convert unencrypted proxies like imap on 143 or smtp on 25 to the >>>> secure version.  Most people who run servers are fairly familiar >>>> with using it.  It's what IBM used for encrypted migration >>>> initially.  You can run stunnel on both ends, or the qemu side >>>> could be built in using the qemu tls-creds way of doing things but >>>> anything running the standard MS server would have to front it with >>>> stunnel still. >>> >>> So it's up to libvirt to setup stunnel to support a completely >>> different setup than what it has for swtpm already? >> >> I don't think so, no.  Libvirt doesn't usually help with server setup >> (witness the complexity of setting up a server side vtpm proxy) so in >> the case tls-creds were built in, it would just work if the object is > > I see, so you are extending the TPM emulator with TLS on the client side so you don't need another tool to setup a TLS connection from the QEMU/client side. s/TPM emulator/TPM backend/ > > Is the server side across the network or on the same host? Either way, what is the latency that this introduces because I would expect that this slows down IMA since the PCR extensions & TPM 2 response now go back and forth across the network? > >     Stefan > >> specified.  The complexity is all on the server side to front it with >> stunnel. >> >> James >> >