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[109.43.179.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w15-20020a0cf70f000000b006a0e6ffd710sm80345qvn.97.2024.04.30.03.02.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Apr 2024 03:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9d132b19-0ca7-409c-995a-4fac96b78799@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:02:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs/about: Automatically deprecate versioned machine types older than 6 years To: =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9?= , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P_=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= , Peter Maydell Cc: devel@lists.libvirt.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Alex_Benn=C3=A9e?= , Laurent Vivier , qemu-s390x@nongnu.org, qemu-arm@nongnu.org, qemu-ppc@nongnu.org, Peter Xu , Fabiano Rosas References: <20240430064529.411699-1-thuth@redhat.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Thomas Huth Autocrypt: addr=thuth@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFH7eUwBEACzyOXKU+5Pcs6wNpKzrlJwzRl3VGZt95VCdb+FgoU9g11m7FWcOafrVRwU yYkTm9+7zBUc0sW5AuPGR/dp3pSLX/yFWsA/UB4nJsHqgDvDU7BImSeiTrnpMOTXb7Arw2a2 4CflIyFqjCpfDM4MuTmzTjXq4Uov1giGE9X6viNo1pxyEpd7PanlKNnf4PqEQp06X4IgUacW tSGj6Gcns1bCuHV8OPWLkf4hkRnu8hdL6i60Yxz4E6TqlrpxsfYwLXgEeswPHOA6Mn4Cso9O 0lewVYfFfsmokfAVMKWzOl1Sr0KGI5T9CpmRfAiSHpthhHWnECcJFwl72NTi6kUcUzG4se81 O6n9d/kTj7pzTmBdfwuOZ0YUSqcqs0W+l1NcASSYZQaDoD3/SLk+nqVeCBB4OnYOGhgmIHNW 0CwMRO/GK+20alxzk//V9GmIM2ACElbfF8+Uug3pqiHkVnKqM7W9/S1NH2qmxB6zMiJUHlTH gnVeZX0dgH27mzstcF786uPcdEqS0KJuxh2kk5IvUSL3Qn3ZgmgdxBMyCPciD/1cb7/Ahazr 3ThHQXSHXkH/aDXdfLsKVuwDzHLVSkdSnZdt5HHh75/NFHxwaTlydgfHmFFwodK8y/TjyiGZ zg2Kje38xnz8zKn9iesFBCcONXS7txENTzX0z80WKBhK+XSFJwARAQABzR5UaG9tYXMgSHV0 aCA8dGh1dGhAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwXgEEwECACIFAlVgX6oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEC7Z13T+cC21EbIP/ii9cvT2HHGbFRl8HqGT6+7Wkb+XLMqJBMAIGiQK QIP3xk1HPTsLfVG0ao4hy/oYkGNOP8+ubLnZen6Yq3zAFiMhQ44lvgigDYJo3Ve59gfe99KX EbtB+X95ODARkq0McR6OAsPNJ7gpEUzfkQUUJTXRDQXfG/FX303Gvk+YU0spm2tsIKPl6AmV 1CegDljzjycyfJbk418MQmMu2T82kjrkEofUO2a24ed3VGC0/Uz//XCR2ZTo+vBoBUQl41BD eFFtoCSrzo3yPFS+w5fkH9NT8ChdpSlbNS32NhYQhJtr9zjWyFRf0Zk+T/1P7ECn6gTEkp5k ofFIA4MFBc/fXbaDRtBmPB0N9pqTFApIUI4vuFPPO0JDrII9dLwZ6lO9EKiwuVlvr1wwzsgq zJTPBU3qHaUO4d/8G+gD7AL/6T4zi8Jo/GmjBsnYaTzbm94lf0CjXjsOX3seMhaE6WAZOQQG tZHAO1kAPWpaxne+wtgMKthyPLNwelLf+xzGvrIKvLX6QuLoWMnWldu22z2ICVnLQChlR9d6 WW8QFEpo/FK7omuS8KvvopFcOOdlbFMM8Y/8vBgVMSsK6fsYUhruny/PahprPbYGiNIhKqz7 UvgyZVl4pBFjTaz/SbimTk210vIlkDyy1WuS8Zsn0htv4+jQPgo9rqFE4mipJjy/iboDzsFN BFH7eUwBEAC2nzfUeeI8dv0C4qrfCPze6NkryUflEut9WwHhfXCLjtvCjnoGqFelH/PE9NF4 4VPSCdvD1SSmFVzu6T9qWdcwMSaC+e7G/z0/AhBfqTeosAF5XvKQlAb9ZPkdDr7YN0a1XDfa +NgA+JZB4ROyBZFFAwNHT+HCnyzy0v9Sh3BgJJwfpXHH2l3LfncvV8rgFv0bvdr70U+On2XH 5bApOyW1WpIG5KPJlDdzcQTyptOJ1dnEHfwnABEfzI3dNf63rlxsGouX/NFRRRNqkdClQR3K gCwciaXfZ7ir7fF0u1N2UuLsWA8Ei1JrNypk+MRxhbvdQC4tyZCZ8mVDk+QOK6pyK2f4rMf/ WmqxNTtAVmNuZIwnJdjRMMSs4W4w6N/bRvpqtykSqx7VXcgqtv6eqoDZrNuhGbekQA0sAnCJ VPArerAZGArm63o39me/bRUQeQVSxEBmg66yshF9HkcUPGVeC4B0TPwz+HFcVhheo6hoJjLq knFOPLRj+0h+ZL+D0GenyqD3CyuyeTT5dGcNU9qT74bdSr20k/CklvI7S9yoQje8BeQAHtdV cvO8XCLrpGuw9SgOS7OP5oI26a0548M4KldAY+kqX6XVphEw3/6U1KTf7WxW5zYLTtadjISB X9xsRWSU+Yqs3C7oN5TIPSoj9tXMoxZkCIHWvnqGwZ7JhwARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJR+3lM AhsMAAoJEC7Z13T+cC21hPAQAIsBL9MdGpdEpvXs9CYrBkd6tS9mbaSWj6XBDfA1AEdQkBOn ZH1Qt7HJesk+qNSnLv6+jP4VwqK5AFMrKJ6IjE7jqgzGxtcZnvSjeDGPF1h2CKZQPpTw890k fy18AvgFHkVk2Oylyexw3aOBsXg6ukN44vIFqPoc+YSU0+0QIdYJp/XFsgWxnFIMYwDpxSHS 5fdDxUjsk3UBHZx+IhFjs2siVZi5wnHIqM7eK9abr2cK2weInTBwXwqVWjsXZ4tq5+jQrwDK cvxIcwXdUTLGxc4/Z/VRH1PZSvfQxdxMGmNTGaXVNfdFZjm4fz0mz+OUi6AHC4CZpwnsliGV ODqwX8Y1zic9viSTbKS01ZNp175POyWViUk9qisPZB7ypfSIVSEULrL347qY/hm9ahhqmn17 Ng255syASv3ehvX7iwWDfzXbA0/TVaqwa1YIkec+/8miicV0zMP9siRcYQkyTqSzaTFBBmqD oiT+z+/E59qj/EKfyce3sbC9XLjXv3mHMrq1tKX4G7IJGnS989E/fg6crv6NHae9Ckm7+lSs IQu4bBP2GxiRQ+NV3iV/KU3ebMRzqIC//DCOxzQNFNJAKldPe/bKZMCxEqtVoRkuJtNdp/5a yXFZ6TfE1hGKrDBYAm4vrnZ4CXFSBDllL59cFFOJCkn4Xboj/aVxxJxF30bn In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=thuth@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.987, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 30/04/2024 11.40, Philippe Mathieu-Daudé wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > On 30/4/24 08:45, Thomas Huth wrote: >> Old machine types often have bugs or work-arounds that affect our >> possibilities to move forward with the QEMU code base (see for example >> https://gitlab.com/qemu-project/qemu/-/issues/2213 for a bug that likely >> cannot be fixed without breaking live migration with old machine types, >> or https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2018-12/msg04516.html or >> commit ea985d235b86). So instead of going through the process of manually >> deprecating old machine types again and again, let's rather add an entry >> that can stay, which declares that machine types older than 6 years are >> considered as deprecated automatically. Six years should be sufficient to >> support the release cycles of most Linux distributions. > > Thanks for taking that out of my plate :) > > IIRC 6 years was because of some old RHEL version, otherwise could > 5 years be enough? (maybe it could be good enough for this old RHEL > version as of QEMU v10.0). My thinking was like this: 1) We recently talked about marking all machine types up to 2.12 as deprecated recently. 2.12 has been released in 2018, so if we feel confident that those old machine types could go away now/soon, 2024 - 2018 = 6 years seem to be a good rule of thumb. 2) RHEL and OpenSuSE tend to provide feature updates in their enterprise distros for 5 (RHEL) or 6 (current OpenSuSE AFAIK) years, so keeping old machine types in upstream QEMU for that amount of time certainly also helps with downstream distros. >> diff --git a/docs/about/deprecated.rst b/docs/about/deprecated.rst >> index 6d595de3b6..fe69e2d44c 100644 >> --- a/docs/about/deprecated.rst >> +++ b/docs/about/deprecated.rst >> @@ -220,6 +220,17 @@ is a chance the code will bitrot without anyone >> noticing. >>   System emulator machines >>   ------------------------ >> +Versioned machine types older than 6 years >> +'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' >> + >> +Starting with the release of QEMU 10.0, versioned machine types older than > > Why can't we start with QEMU 9.1? If I put 9.1 now there, that would make it possible to immediately remove machines in 9.2, i.e. we would skip the must-be-marked-as-deprecated-for-two-releases rule here. Thomas